HELLLLPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[claydbal]

ok guys and gals, help me here. gonna buy a bus monday. the choices are......... remember, these are late 80s and early 90s buses..........1989 65 passenger amtrans with dt360. 1994 amtrans 60 passenger with dt446. and ford chassis straight six diesel. thats all the info i have. so, based on that poor info,and just for **** and giggles lets say they were all the same length, which would you buy for 1200 bucks? also, does anyone know what mototr would be in a late 80s ford with a six cylinder?


thanks a bunch!

 

[jazty]

Oohh.. that's a tough one. The DTA360 isn't known for power, but it sure is a fuel miser, which translates to affordable driving. The DT466 is also a great engine and with the newer body and chassis it may be the way to go. I don't know much about Ford buses (and judging by the quick mention, I'm guessing you don't know much about them either). I'd put a vote in for either Internationals. You might want to base the decision on how much rust you see underneath...

 

[ol trunt]

I'd guess the 80's Ford would be a 300 CID gasser. If so, it is a good engine overall but hard on gas in that heavy an application--unless it has a 2 spd axle etc to help out. If it turns out to be a diesel then I have no clue

 

[wauto]

The Ford may have a 5.9 cummins.

 

[orangepeel91-SKO]

The ford can also have the 6 liter Brazilian diesel too.

But condition and price being similar I would jump on the DT 466 without hesitation.
This engine is LEGENDARY.
First it has replaceable cylinder liners. This means the engine block does not need to be removed from the frame to be rebuilt. That is a time and labor saver if you ever need it done. (an inframe for that engine will run around 7k)
Let me share a little first hand experience with this engine. The one in my work truck was inframed at around 320,000 miles and the original head was reused without any valve work. Still ran fine when retired at 430,000 miles. Averaged 10 mpg with a LOT of idle time. Being used on a road trip with proper gearing it should be closer to 12. Idle time KILLS fuel economy. Not particularly good for the engine either.

Gearing counts! There is another member of this board with a DT466 that has overheating problems on the highway in Texas. There is a simple reason for that. The DT 466 was NEVER intended to run at high rpm for extended periods of time. Most school buses are geared for city use. There is a reason they seem to top out around 50 to 55 mph flat out. If you buy the bus with the 466 figure out what speed you want to be able to cruise at then gear the rear axle so that the engine runs about 17 to 1800 rpm at that speed. It will take a grand but your engine will live longer and happier and quieter among other things. You won't have constant overheating issues either.

 

[Crazy]

Try to get a MT643 transmission if available and stay away from the AT545.

 

[claydbal]

thank yall. the ford is definately a diesel. i have not seen it yet because i havnt fount it yet. lol the busses are in two locations, both rural, and at one location, is the dt 360. i am prepared to buy the 360, only rust is on the back corners and a little on the rub rail. looks like the bus held water in the rub rails and also maybe rain water settled at the back of the bus.the chassis is amtrans and body is ward volunteer. 65 passenger. these busses spent their lives in south louisiana.

the 466 bus im sure i must have seen it, but when i went to where it is at, i got whupped up on by a bunch of killer wasps from ****. 18 stings! the busses there are in about 4 ft of weeds. the owner said the busses would have to go to memphis on occasion and this particular bus was governed at 55 mph. my concern is the length..60 passenger? one half seat? will try and go again this morning to look again. (armed this time, lol) but i doubt i will be able to get a good look at underside to determine tranny. oh, it will be amtrans and either ward or blue bird.

i will also try and locate the ford. he said it is a very tight bus, and has a straight six.it ran out of fuel last time they moved it so it sits somewhere in the woods. thats all the info so far. there are no bad six cylinder diesels are there?

the story on these is the man and his daughter bought a bunch of busses and had a bussiness shuttling workers to construction sites, refineries and chemical plants. so they had to be maintained to meet the need. they have current tags and inspection,( a couple may have expired in last few months) and the fellow says to pick anyone i want, they are all in good shape. he says they are worth 1200 in scrap but he would rather see them live a longer life! also, he is wanting to do a schoolie conversion too!

 

[claydbal]

okay, just got back from looking at the busses again. found the ford and eliminated it quickly ( bent bumper and broken front cap.). the bus with the dt466 looks ok, is a carpenter body and has a side door! BUT, it is only a 60 passenger. it also has a spin on filter on the transmission????

the 65 passenger looks good, ward volunteer body, dt360 and no filter on trans. there is a slight rust stain from the top radiator hose, and water pump area. maybe a sign of overheating and adding water, maybe stained from a wee little drip over a very long period. but, it is rusty water! the stain would not be there if it was coolant, right? so im leary..

everyone says both engines are great for almost forever, the only killer being cavitation in the cylinders. what are the chances?

oh, still trying to figure out the sure heat thing. the bus with the 360 has two heaters up front. one by left ankle and the other by the door. they are marked with a plate. sure heat. are those just cores and blowers or are the the type that burn fuel like webasto and others?

question of the day is the power difference, the mpg difference or the total length a deal breaker, or should i run away from both or either?

thanks again for all yalls help.

 

[jazty]

everyone says both engines are great for almost forever, the only killer being cavitation in the cylinders. what are the chances?

I hear about the possibilities of cavitation issues, but I've yet to hear of anyone actually have an engine fail from it. As long as the coolant is the correct type for the engine, it shouldn't really be a problem. That said, if the one engine was actually using straight water instead of coolant there may be an issue.

 

[opus-SKO]

For economy, go back to the Ford most likely. Yes, transmissions have spin on filters.

 

[sojourner-SKO]

DT466 is the way to go. Most likely will have the MT643 behind it. Not a guarantee but more likely due to higher horsepower. My Mt643 has a spin on filter on it as well. It would be nice to know if this guy had any parts laying around. I'd like to locate a 4.10 or 3.90'ish differential for my 1995 AMTrans.

 

[claydbal]

DT466 is the way to go. Most likely will have the MT643 behind it. Not a guarantee but more likely due to higher horsepower. My Mt643 has a spin on filter on it as well. It would be nice to know if this guy had any parts laying around. I'd like to locate a 4.10 or 3.90'ish differential for my 1995 AMTrans.

sorry, i asked that question. he does not have parts.

 

[sojourner-SKO]

sorry, i asked that question. he does not have parts.

Thanks for the reply. By the way, which bus are you purchasing? At $1200.00 you can't go too wrong either way. For us, ours is going to be a "residential vehicle" so we went wit as large a one as we culd find. A 1995 40ft. AmTran FE. DT408 and MT643.

 

[YOLO_bus]

Where are these buses? That sounds like a great deal.

 

[claydbal]

thanks again guys. im bouncing back and forth. i got some graph paper and drew floor plans till i ran out of beer, and comparing the measurements of the 65 and 60 passenger busses, it looks like i can make the 3 foot shorter bus work. and am really shying away from the dt360 because i can only imagine it has been ran with straight water (being topped off regularly because of leaks) and am scared of the potential for cavitation. SO im really leaning toward the dt466. i feel like a yoyo.

the busses are in southwest louisiana. they were retired from school and bought from auction. then they lived on refineries and plants as worker shuttles. now they are dying in tall weeds and look really sad. i bet they will be so happy to get rescued that they will be as loyal as a hound dog. he has about 4-5 that are longer, 12-14 windows, but have the v-8 diesels 7.3, and another 5-6 v-8's that are 10 windows. anyone interested, i will be happy to answer or get answers, or hook you up with him directly. but he is 72 year old coonass, so be prepared!!! lol

anyone want to take the next two days to talk me out of buying the 1994 carpenter 60 passenger bus (dt466 )? give me ****, i will appreciate all input good or bad. i am old, tired and broke and cant afford to do this but once!

 

[Tango-SKO]

My only two-cents would be regarding rust. --- I am just West of that area (in Houston) and familiar with what coastal salt air can do to metal. Then there are a host of similar issues brought on if they lived in refinery environments. There is stuff in the air around chemical plants that can be much worse than salt.

All I'm saying is take a really long, hard look all over before you jump on anything from this area. Some are fine but I've seen others that looked OK on top but the frame rails were practically rusted in two. The prices sound great, just make sure you know what you are buying in to.

Best of luck with the hunt.

 

[roach711]

I hear about the possibilities of cavitation issues, but I've yet to hear of anyone actually have an engine fail from it. As long as the coolant is the correct type for the engine, it shouldn't really be a problem. That said, if the one engine was actually using straight water instead of coolant there may be an issue.

Many diesels are prone to cavitation but it's easy to prevent with the proper additive. Basically you mix the supplemental coolant additive (SCA) with the coolant recommended for your engine and do a quick test every 6 months or so. Not a big deal at all.

Here's the additive: http://www.dieselmanor.com/fleetguard/DCA60L.asp

If you go this route get the test strips at the same time. You'll probably want to do a complete coolant flush on your "new" bus anyway.

 

[JDecker-SKO]

I'd take the 466 over the 360 if you plan on driving it more than once or twice a year. You could always add a porch or something to make up for the length.

 

[jazty]

I hear about the possibilities of cavitation issues, but I've yet to hear of anyone actually have an engine fail from it. As long as the coolant is the correct type for the engine, it shouldn't really be a problem. That said, if the one engine was actually using straight water instead of coolant there may be an issue.

Many diesels are prone to cavitation but it's easy to prevent with the proper additive. Basically you mix the supplemental coolant additive (SCA) with the coolant recommended for your engine and do a quick test every 6 months or so. Not a big deal at all.

Here's the additive: http://www.dieselmanor.com/fleetguard/DCA60L.asp

If you go this route get the test strips at the same time. You'll probably want to do a complete coolant flush on your "new" bus anyway.

Also, if you're lucky enough to have an engine that accepts coolant filters you probably don't have to worry about adding additional SCA. The filters usually have the additive in a slow-release form inside.

 

[opus-SKO]

Also, if you're lucky enough to have an engine that accepts coolant filters you probably don't have to worry about adding additional SCA. The filters usually have the additive in a slow-release form inside.

He'll still have to test to see what filter he uses regarding levels of additive....or none.