Hello, from Colorado 1974 GILLIG Transit 636

[Anax]

Yea, I have seen that they were speciality built in a couple ways. One by how many different transmission models and engines they offered over course of their run. The other is in trying to track stuff down about the axle I managed to get the original bill of materials. A lot of those where even custom components.

Then I won’t worry to much about modernizing it some. I was looking at it through the lens of a classic car. The more original the better. But then I don’t plan on selling. And hopefully can keep it running and in good shape shape 50 years from now, even if I have to reverse engineer and redesign the parts myself. Ahh the joys of working for an engineering firm as a designer. Another major advantage of that. Is in the house charging system schematics I am developing. I get to have an electrical engineer look at them for free lol. I still hate calculating line sizes though. But always good to learn other disciplines, makes you a better designer.

As far as structural integrity and safety goes that is one of the reasons I bought a school bus. RVs explode. Busses make things explode. They have a much higher safety rating.

 

[nikitis]

Ain't that the truth. NEVER say school Bus. I've had no issues with insurance even though mine is still all yellow. Depends on the Insurance Carrier. I use Foremost and am happy with them. Great pricing but I only carry Liability knowing that any physical damage to my bus will come out of my pocket, I don't expect them to honor a claim for obsolete unavailable parts. We must accept that responsibility when we choose this path to walk down.

Yes exactly. Some will say if I put all this work into it I want it covered! But they usually will find some way to not pay out. Liability is required to get it out on the road and cover for other people who you may hit, not so much for your bus, so just go into it with that in mind.

On another note it really is highway robbery the prices they charge. I guess because it is so specialized? And yea hard to find unavailable obsolete parts is an issue. It won’t be original anymore but mine will have a completely upgraded rear axel. So I am happy about that.

It's not because it's specialized, it's because it's considered a commercial vehicle. Businesses know they can charge a company a premium price and they will just pay it because it's business and expected to pay it. Most shops WON'T take into account you are just a person without a business because who would personally own a commercial bus and drive it around? We are a peculiar people who do this. We see the value in it, but we often don't consider the costs that can come with going down this path.

The upside though is that the parts are larger to work with and often times easier to work on but you gotta know what you are doing and fix things yourself.

As to your axle not being "Original" anymore, you can relax about that. It's important to always remember that these Gilligs and Crowns were produced using at that time current off the shelf components from many different vendors and suppliers. So the idea of "Original" equipment looses it's shine when you realize that the next serial number Gillig made might very well have had another axle from another vendor, or even a different model axle number completely. These were the epitome of a "Kit-Built" vehicles exactly like the Peterbilt's, and Kenworth's continue to be today. All that truly matters is that the specific Function continues to be performed by any given component, whether it's from an original "as-built" part, or an updated and maybe improved part or component that will drop in with minimal effort and do the same job. That's all that really matters in the end.

You'll be pleasantly surprised as you dig deeper into this vehicle how many of the components and parts are still made and in use today due to the fact that the essential vehicle systems operate today as they did 50 years ago. Some may certainly be unobtainium for sure, but with research you will likely find a modern replacement that does the same job, and currently still in production, and may even drop right in. Even if modifications are required to make it fit then at least you'll know you can continue to get those parts in the future and keep it on the road. Upgrading to more recent parts as needed can be a real advantage for the next time you need repairs. It's an engineering adventure for sure, don't be afraid to make modifications and improvements as long as you don't violate the structural or basic vehicle safety designed into it.

This 100% and it doesn't apply to Crowns only. Any of our buses can work similarly. In the end most all of the buses are simply two C-Channels with everything attached to it, so as long as the axle weight is sized appropriately, and aligned to the wheel wells it should work, and no one is ever gonna know it's not original.

My bus is full of modern modifications already and I've still managed even with a roof raise to keep it looking factory. No one would question it if they didn't know.

I also like the idea of modernizing front end suspensions because it does bring you into the future a bit making it easier to work on later, while keeping the classic look.

If you found a 1950's bus in tatters, there's a good chance you'd be doing this to that bus as well. It's a common practice so don't feel down about swapping parts. Just make sure it's functional.

 

[Anax]

This shop seems to be doing what they can to work with me on a price. I was told 10-12k just to rebuild the rear axle and brakes. And there was a chance that it didn’t include the differential. Or the tires.. So I was looking at a lot of money. Well they found a complete rear axle to swap out but it needed the differential rebuilt which they are doing. The original quote for the rear axel was 9k. I am now looking at $6500 for the rear axle job with a rebuilt differential. That also includes brakes and everything else involved with the rear axle. The only thing not included was new tires. Which is a lot better than what I was expecting. So I figure I will be in it for 8k est. Which is way better than what I was looking at. So that is pretty decent news. Still a lot of money, but this is the only time I have ever heard of a shop coming down in price. So far I would recommend them. It is Rocky Mountain truck center in Brighton. We will see the quality of the mechanical work done. But they have done a lot to accommodate me. Hopefully the bus will be back on the road mid December. Give me lots of time to plan my my buildout. Lots I can accomplish as far as design goes in that time.

Just wish I had exact dimensions of the bus so I can figure things out like mounting of a propane tank running pipe for it. Wire lengths. I have an estimated building area, So I guess I can gustimate it. But would still be nice.

 

[Tejon7]

Better than 12k! Hopefully this is your only big mechanical hiccup.
Are they putting in the same gear ratio as before?

 

[Anax]

They inspected the transmission and engine and said those looked good. I know anything can happen but I feel better having it looked over by a professional. Maybe in a couple months I will have a mechanic go through everything and see what all if anything else needs to be done.

My gut shot assumption is yes they are going with the same gear ratio… But I could be dead wrong. There weren’t really many option when it came to rebuilding the rear end as a lot of the parts are not available and I need everything rebuilt on the rear axle. I was able to get the bill of materials for the axle, but the problem was that even though it was a Rockwell gillig had a lot of custom parts in there. And Rockwell (Meritor) didn’t have a direct replacement for the axle.

The best guess of how the fire started is the rear differential seal went out and leaked differential fluid all over the brakes…

 

[Anax]

Happy thanksgiving post.

Yesterday I finally got the quote for my bus finished. It 7100 for replacing the axle with a rebuilt differential. That come with a 500 dollar buffer.

Then came the tires. Since I swapped out the axle it changed the hub style? Anyway I needed 4 new tires and rims… each tire rim and to mount the tire came out to 800 a piece… so I am looking at a little over 3200 just for new rims and tires. I thought about trying to find a good set of used ones. I might look this weekend and contact the shop on Monday if I can find something. Still haven’t decided yet because new tires mean longer time till replacement and I know 100% the quality that they are in.

So the final repair bill after all taxes and fees comes out to a max of 12088 dollars. That is a hard bill to swallow. But I had the mechanic spend 2 hours of labor going over the engine and transmission and they checked out. I am looking forward to this part of the adventure being done with, and moving on to the next.

 

[Tejon7]

Food for thought about new vs used tires: I know you've said that you'll finish your conversion in a year, and I hope you're right on that. I said 18 months and it took me 5 years. It seems like my timeline "creep" is common. Since tires on our buses tend to age out instead of wear out, it might be a good idea to get the cheapest rubber that'll roll, then new ones once you're driving more. That might mean used, recaps, or both which is what I did a few years back.

FYI , I got all new tires this year and the budget Roadmaster I got on the rear seem perfectly fine so far at less than 1/2 the price of Michelin's.

 

[Anax]

I haven’t decided yet as far as tires go.

Even if it does creep on time. I will put an air mattress in it and still take it out. lol. I want to use it. Even if it is not prefect. Or finished. **** had it not caught fire. I was planning on taking it to Houston the way it was just throw an air mattress on the floor. But it did and probably best it happened when it did.

Kinda discouraged for a lot of personal reasons right now. Hopefully everything will work out and I get to keep the bus. Otherwise it is save again for the next one

 

[s2mikon]

Use it as much as possible on short trips. Much easier to get it back home if it fails. I tried to use mine every week if I could. This is how you find the hidden gremlins. After a while you will be good to go. I had to tow mine back once.

 

[Anax]

Use it as much as possible on short trips. Much easier to get it back home if it fails. I tried to use mine every week if I could. This is how you find the hidden gremlins. After a while you will be good to go. I had to tow mine back once.

I don’t know if you read the whole thread. But I found a major gremlin lol. The rear axle caught fire. I am in the process of doing an axle swap. Hopefully that will be the last gremlin I find. Cause it is the last one I can afford for a while for sure

 

[PorchDog]

Deleted because I was "way behind the airplane"....my suggestion was after the fact....

 

[Anax]

Surely the rear axle is some "off the shelf" component-- used in medium duty trucks..--I would try to gather as much info off the axle as possible and call Van der Haags or someone similar. I would think you should be able to get by for half or less than what you have been quoted....

It’s 6500 installed. And they had to do a lot of tracking to find it. It’s the 4k in tires that is eating me alive. When they changed the axle they switched hub type I think it was so they had to by new rims and tires

 

[PorchDog]

Your hubs may have gone from stud centric wheels to hub centric wheels-- you can't interchange them-- I had no idea about this until I joined this forum...

 

[nikitis]

Early loss is common as we are inheriting 20-30+- year old buses. Sometimes sooner if there's an issue, they sell them early.

It's almost good to expect some issues. You just don't want the major ones like engine failure.

Mine had computer failure, king pin failures, carrier bearings, pinion seal. which ended up costing me about $4600 total only because I did the king pins myself. If I had paid mechanics, it would of been $10000, 2k for the re-used computer, and 6k for the king pins. $1600 for the pinion seal job, and $400 for the new carrier bearings. I've not had to do anything else major to my bus. Worked great since last two years and doing all of that. But I turned a 10k set of jobs into less than half that by DIY'ing some of it.

Learn to work on your bus to save money. Parts will always cost and have markup, but if you have two hands and the internet, you can figure out putting them together.

 

[Bjorkinman]

Man, I'm really sorry to hear about this major hiccup so early in your game. Im not a diesel mechanic either but like you im willing to jump in and try to figure it out. This is honestly my main selfish reason for belonging to this community, I'm trying to learn as much as I can to keep it rolling. If I can add value to someone else then I count that as a win. You're not alone, and the folks on here are really helpful.

 

[s2mikon]

4 rims with used rubber should be way less than 4k. That money will get you started on the conversion. I ran some old junk rubber for a while when I was doing the conversion. I bought new rubber later.

 

[nikitis]

4 rims with used rubber should be way less than 4k. That money will get you started on the conversion. I ran some old junk rubber for a while when I was doing the conversion. I bought new rubber later.

I replaced my fronts, but still on my rear used originals came with tires. The tread is great but way past expiration, by like 8 years. Not enough cracking on them to justify replacing just yet, but now I plan to live in it soon, and will probably keep them while it's parked for the next year or two, then finally replace them when I'm going to travel more.

 

[Anax]

Like post updates but wish I had something still just waiting on the shop to finish up hopefully next week if I am lucky.