Help with a mobile performance platform skoolie/bus conversion

[MoHA]

Hello y’all,

Im the director of an Arts non-profit in Austin, TX looking to convert a bus to a mobile platform for doing film screenings and performance in neighborhoods and communities that have limited arts and entertainment access. The idea of the project is that all programming would be dictated by the places we go, and community members could attend from their own lawns or at least be in walking distance of their homes to help define comfort/safety during COVID and beyond. For the next year we want to do this mobile programming in Central Texas but by late 2021 we have plans to do a short tour to Northwest Arkansas, Oklahoma. We would continue to expand the length of our routes as time went on and eventually would like to make it to the coasts.

We bought a bus for $5k late last year with a little bit of grant money we got for research. Its been sitting in the parking lot and had full maintenance history provided from two women who were using it for a summer camp. From the records they were keeping it maintained well.

The bus is named Peanut

• 97’ Champion
• ~85k miles
• 38’ long
• 5.9 Cummins 97’,
• Build date June 1997
• 190 HP
• Common Rail
• 12V
  
• Allison AT545 Transmission

Starts and runs fine and we haven’t taken it very far

The arts org has a bunch of hard working and talented folks but our skills tend to be more in fabrication and carpentry rather than diesel engines.

We’re applying to more grants to try and put a roof deck on the bus and outfit it for our outdoor projection screen (I included photos below) and I wanted to make sure things were ok mechanically before we started work on it and that it would do fine with the weight.

Here’s the bad news…

We paid a shop $155 for a buyers check and they came back with a list of things to fix and quoted $1250 for a full diagnostic and tear down and said that pending what they find those repairs could be $4-6k.

My question is should we just cut our losses and try to sell Peanut and purchase something different from advice I’ve now found on this site? Does the quote from the shop seem accurate?

Or, do we make an investment now and have a reliable vehicle for what we want to do toward the long term future.

Those things the shop recommended included…

“DURING VEHICLE INSPECTION TECH FOUND ROOF AND CEILING WATER DAMAGED, SOME INTERIOR LIGHTS INOP, NO DASH A/C OPERATION, L/P LENS BROKEN, A/C BELTS LOOSE, VEHICLE DUE FOR SERVICES, CHASSIS AND BODY RUSTED, DRIVE BELT PULLEYS AND TENSIONER MAKING NOISE/BOUNCING, FUEL LEAKS PRESENT, OIL LEAKS PRESENT, POWER STEERING LEAKING, FRONT ROTORS WARPED CAUSING VIBRATION, L/R INNER PAD METAL TO METAL, R/R HUB APPEARS TO HAVE BEEN ON FIRE, EXHAUST LEAKS PRESENT, AFTERMARKET A/C'S NOT BLOWING COLD, OIL PRESSURE GAUGE READS <5PSI AT IDLE, ENGINE SMOKES UNDER LOAD, COOLANT LEVEL LOW IN RADIATOR AND NONE IN OVERFLOW BOTTLE, STEERING MAKES NOISE WHEN TURNING, AND TIRES APPEAR TO BE IN DECENT CONDITION BUT ARE GETTING OLD (2014/DOT). WILL ADVISE CUSTOMER ON NECESSARY REPAIRS AND FURTHER INSPECTION AND DIAGNOSTICS AS REQUIRED.

-PRESSURE WASH ENGINE BAY AND INSPECT FOR FLUID LEAKS AS NECESSARY

-TEAR DOWN AND INSPECT BELT DRIVE SYSTEM FOR DAMAGED PULLEY --

-DASH AND DUAL REAR SYSTEM A/C SYSTEM CHECK,INCLUDES PERFORMANCE TEST AND/OR RECHARGE SYSTEM TO CHECK FOR LEAKS

-PRESSURE TEST COOLING SYSTEM FOR LEAKS AND ADVISE --

-CHECK FUEL LEAKS/EXH LEAKS

-TEAR DOWN AND INSPECT REAR BRAKE SYSTEM FOR WORN AND DAMAGED COMPONENTS --

:Thanx:

 

[CHEESE_WAGON]

5 psi oil pressure at idle is bad news, but could be a bad sensor or faulty gauge. If the pressure was that low, it would likely seize up within minutes. I'd get a second opinion with a shop that will test with a mechanical gauge. Kinda sounds like this shop may be padding the bill with fabricated defects.

 

[Shamoke]

5 psi oil pressure at idle is bad news, but could be a bad sensor or faulty gauge. If the pressure was that low, it would likely seize up within minutes. I'd get a second opinion with a shop that will test with a mechanical gauge. Kinda sounds like this shop may be padding the bill with fabricated defects.

I second this, never hurts to spend a little more on a second opinion before spending that much to repair or losing what you already have in it. Some of those items listed are easy fixes you could do but some of the engine and brake work will need professional hands to remedy.

 

[Native-SKO]

Here’s the bad news…

We paid a shop $155 for a buyers check and they came back with a list of things to fix and quoted $1250 for a full diagnostic and tear down and said that pending what they find those repairs could be $4-6k.

My question is should we just cut our losses and try to sell Peanut and purchase something different from advice I’ve now found on this site? Does the quote from the shop seem accurate?

Or, do we make an investment now and have a reliable vehicle for what we want to do toward the long term future.

Those things the shop recommended included…

“DURING VEHICLE INSPECTION TECH FOUND ROOF AND CEILING WATER DAMAGED, SOME INTERIOR LIGHTS INOP, NO DASH A/C OPERATION, L/P LENS BROKEN, A/C BELTS LOOSE, VEHICLE DUE FOR SERVICES, CHASSIS AND BODY RUSTED, DRIVE BELT PULLEYS AND TENSIONER MAKING NOISE/BOUNCING, FUEL LEAKS PRESENT, OIL LEAKS PRESENT, POWER STEERING LEAKING, FRONT ROTORS WARPED CAUSING VIBRATION, L/R INNER PAD METAL TO METAL, R/R HUB APPEARS TO HAVE BEEN ON FIRE, EXHAUST LEAKS PRESENT, AFTERMARKET A/C'S NOT BLOWING COLD, OIL PRESSURE GAUGE READS <5PSI AT IDLE, ENGINE SMOKES UNDER LOAD, COOLANT LEVEL LOW IN RADIATOR AND NONE IN OVERFLOW BOTTLE, STEERING MAKES NOISE WHEN TURNING, AND TIRES APPEAR TO BE IN DECENT CONDITION BUT ARE GETTING OLD (2014/DOT). WILL ADVISE CUSTOMER ON NECESSARY REPAIRS AND FURTHER INSPECTION AND DIAGNOSTICS AS REQUIRED.

-PRESSURE WASH ENGINE BAY AND INSPECT FOR FLUID LEAKS AS NECESSARY

-TEAR DOWN AND INSPECT BELT DRIVE SYSTEM FOR DAMAGED PULLEY --

-DASH AND DUAL REAR SYSTEM A/C SYSTEM CHECK,INCLUDES PERFORMANCE TEST AND/OR RECHARGE SYSTEM TO CHECK FOR LEAKS

-PRESSURE TEST COOLING SYSTEM FOR LEAKS AND ADVISE --

-CHECK FUEL LEAKS/EXH LEAKS

-TEAR DOWN AND INSPECT REAR BRAKE SYSTEM FOR WORN AND DAMAGED COMPONENTS --

If I read this correctly, they want an additional $1250.00 to perfrm the six listed inspections. Then, depending on the extent of damages, they would want an additional $4K to $6K to make the repairs ... or more if other problems crop up.


If you do go for the six inspections, you will want to have the brakes repaired. When we had the brakes and shocks on our bus replaced, it cost us over $2,200.00. Our bus had *some* rusting which made the repairs harder (but not more expensive due to book rate charging) so for us it was well worth the expense.


After the inspections, you may very well want to sell the bus should the cost of the rest be too much to bear. As it is, the Left-Rear brakes being metal-to-metal means you have no brakes on that wheel-set ... dangerous. The report also mentions that the Right-Rear hub appears to have been on fire ... not good at all. Also, your front rotors are warped causing vibration. Just how badly warped is not clear. They might be turned-down to true, but should probably be replaced.

 

[BeNimble]

The quoted costs seems reasonable. The extent of the rust is the biggest issue.

Well the reality is that a bus is an expensive vehicle, despite being cheap to purchase after they are old, or said another way, they are cheap when old precisely because they can be very expensive to keep running, for example, an oil change is $500.
I am reminded that people say a sailboat uses free wind, and this is true until you have to replace the sails at $2k-$10k every couple years, plus $500 winches, $5k in rigging, etc.

So perhaps you could sell this bus and buy a less expensive vehicle as your mobile performance vehicle. I don't really see the need to mount a big screen on a bus, they have ground mounted setups, in either case, wind can be a serious issue which such a large surface (note mention of sails..)

 

[CHEESE_WAGON]

Lots of useful input here, but I would still get a second opinion with another shop that will use a mechanical gauge to check the oil pressure. Gauges and sending units are known to fail. Oil pressure and the potentially cooked wheel hub (likely bearing and axle shaft) are the two most concerning and most potentially expensive expensive items listed that I see. And I certainly wouldn't pay $1250 just to have a mechanical oil pressure gauge temporarily installed to compare to the dash reading, and the axle shaft pulled to check the hub bearing, which is essentially all there is to diagnosing these repairs.

If the oil pressure is just a bad sensor or wonky gauge (likely), and they're perhaps BS'ing about the hub bearing, that changes things drastically, as actual oil pressure problems mean an engine in-frame / replacement ($4000 estimated) and fried wheel bearing / axle shaft means rear differential overhaul or replacement ($2000 estimated). If either of these are misdiagnosed or just a flat-out lie from a shady shop, can be a huge waste of money. So there is a lot of potential to get hosed on unneeded repairs here.

Although I'm not overly enthusiastic about what I've read and heard about the 24V Cummins injection system. But I can say that a true oil pressure reading of 5 psi is certain death. Gasoline engines lugging 4000 lbs won't take that for very long, I don't see a smaller diesel lugging 30,000 lbs making it two months like that. I'm not sure it would have driven there with oil pressure that low.

Smoking under load could be a fuel or turbo problem. Black or grey smoke is usually fuel-related, blue is oil, and white is coolant. A bad turbo can produce black smoke from overfueling, and blue smoke from bad seals, which can cause a runaway condition.

My advice, find out what color smoke, get a true oil pressure reading, and verify whether the axle needs repair. Those will tell the tale as to whether it is worth fixing. Blue or white smoke may mean the engine is shot, especially if the oil pressure is truly that low (it should be about 35-40 idling warm - 65-70 idling cold, 50 above 1000 rpm warm). That to me is most important to know right now. Most expensive item and determines whether anything else is worth fixing, because the $6000 it might take to fix could potentially buy another unit in better mechanical shape.

 

[MoHA]

First of all, thanks to everyone for the input and I'll share updates as I go. We're going to follow all the advice here and ask questions and get a second opinion as well.

I just spoke to a group of young students about how the Skoolie forum was the most encouraging and exciting thing I experienced this week as it made me feel better about the internet and individuals supporting each other out of care and a mutual love for an idea (skoolies in this case). Happy y'all have such a nice and supportive thing going here and just wanted to say your knowledge and input is very much appreciated.

 

[Rucker]

Just my opinion, but finding another bus with better mechanicals will allow you to focus on the rebuild of the interior.

You will first have to dump lots of green cash into repairing a well-worn vehicle (that's what I see in the report).

Your free-ish labor and resources will not be able to help with the mechanical things, so it will be a steep investment before you really begin.

Consider selling it for what you can get, and raising enough money for a bus in better operating condition rather than for the thousands in repair this one needs.

 

[Shamoke]

Just my opinion, but finding another bus with better mechanicals will allow you to focus on the rebuild of the interior.

You will first have to dump lots of green cash into repairing a well-worn vehicle (that's what I see in the report).

Your free-ish labor and resources will not be able to help with the mechanical things, so it will be a steep investment before you really begin.

Consider selling it for what you can get, and raising enough money for a bus in better operating condition rather than for the thousands in repair this one needs.

I agree with all that you said here but if it was me I would spend another $150 ish it would take to confirm the original diagnosis before I made a decision involving that kind of money. Either way another diagnostic fee here really won't make much difference and could end up saving a large amount of cash in the end.

 

[Native-SKO]

Yeah, a second opinion could prove to be enlightening.

 

[cadillackid]

this sounds like a ragged out worn out bus unfortunately .. low oil pressure at idle doesnt always bother me. but smoking under load means either turbo or injectors or possibly such low compression that it smokes esp before being fully warmed up could be just bad fuel..



non working and loose belts on the air conditioning sounds like the system was let go and not maintained.. its already low spec with an AT545.. if it had working road A/C and you want a bus with road A/C then it is worth a few extra bucks..



I just read though again that you already bought it.. have you got into your conversion yet? do you like the bus?



the other side of this is you could sell it.. maybe get $1000 out of it and go buy another bus that would have a used-everything in it that may opr may not be in good shape.. you you could spend 6K and have a bus thats likely ready to rock N roll.. if it were me and I liked the bus id probably spend the 6K anbd have a bus thats ready to rock N roll..

 

[o1marc]

I agree with all that you said here but if it was me I would spend another $150 ish it would take to confirm the original diagnosis before I made a decision involving that kind of money. Either way another diagnostic fee here really won't make much difference and could end up saving a large amount of cash in the end.

Confirming the original diagnosis is $1250, that's a substantial amount just for diagnoses on an estimated $4-$6K in needed repairs. I would sell this and buy another without issues.

 

[MoHA]

Ok, got an updated from a second mechanic. Oil pressure is fine, although he did say the wrong kind of oil was in it and maybe that is why we're getting a variety of readings. We shared our vision of the project with him and he came back with a pretty different quote but one that seems more realistic and in line with what we want (focused on brakes and suspension fixes). The brakes that were originally reported as metal on metal were put on backwards by some other mechanic and he was floored that someone had done this.

His quote included the following:
REMOVE & REPLACE EXHAUST MANIFOLD OR GSKT (ONE) $740.00
REMOVE & REPLACE AIR CLEANER ELEMENT $30.00
REMOVE & REPLACE FUEL FILTER $120.00
REMOVE & REPLACE FUEL,WATER & AIR FILTERS $300.00
FLUSH ENGINE (CHEMICAL FLUSH) $340.00
Brake hoses $400.00
BRAKE LINE (REAR TEE TO STAND OFF) $140.00
REMOVE & REPLACE KING PINS OR BUSHINGS(BOTH) $2,020.00
REMOVE & REPLACE U-JOINTS (THREE) $620.00
Air bag kits (suspension) install $800.00
Total $7,193.72

The most expensive fixes at the moment being his recommendation of replacing the king pins, brakes and fixing the suspension. The smaller stuff we could take care of. So we're back to the question of whether to sell this bus and just raise money for a different bus as a template to work off of, or put our money into fixing "Peanut" and have a reliable vehicle for the long term by putting in this investment now.

What do y'all think?

 

[cadillackid]

here is my thought on it.. you could sell it at likely a pretty good loss.. biy a cheaper bus that nay or may not need the same fixes in a month or a year or 2 or never.. or put the 7K into this bus that you know and then its ready to build out and hop on the road.. while you cant predfict if peanut will blow a transmission shortly after or not.. the real question is does peanut check off all the other boxes for a bus that will succeed at what you ask it to do..



if you plan to head up and down the rocky mountains and explore the great west over and over then id be inclined to put the $$ into findiong another bus that is better suited..



if you plan to keep it in texas, arkansas, lousiana, etc down south then peanut has a drivetrain that will oblige (other than the 80 MPH highways people do in texas. but if you dont mind going slower or taking the backroads then it will likely be just peachy for that)..



I have been one to take busses and build them and fix them into what I want vs buying into what i want.. neither of my 2 main road-trip runners were very suited to hilly or highway travel, now both are.. so busses can be altered if your needs change down the line..

 

[Shamoke]

I am inclined to agree with Cadillackid here, I'd put the money into a known rig than an unknown potential problem. If you are happy that the rig will suit all of your needs then it's worth making the needed repairs and then you know what you've got and can build with confidence.

 

[BeNimble]

Second opinion about the same, so my advice is the same. There was no mention of rust in the second report?

Do you plan to transport 10+ people to your performances?

 

[Rucker]

Ok, got an updated from a second mechanic. Oil pressure is fine, although he did say the wrong kind of oil was in it and maybe that is why we're getting a variety of readings. We shared our vision of the project with him and he came back with a pretty different quote but one that seems more realistic and in line with what we want (focused on brakes and suspension fixes). The brakes that were originally reported as metal on metal were put on backwards by some other mechanic and he was floored that someone had done this.

His quote included the following:
REMOVE & REPLACE EXHAUST MANIFOLD OR GSKT (ONE) $740.00
REMOVE & REPLACE AIR CLEANER ELEMENT $30.00
REMOVE & REPLACE FUEL FILTER $120.00
REMOVE & REPLACE FUEL,WATER & AIR FILTERS $300.00
FLUSH ENGINE (CHEMICAL FLUSH) $340.00
Brake hoses $400.00
BRAKE LINE (REAR TEE TO STAND OFF) $140.00
REMOVE & REPLACE KING PINS OR BUSHINGS(BOTH) $2,020.00
REMOVE & REPLACE U-JOINTS (THREE) $620.00
Air bag kits (suspension) install $800.00
Total $7,193.72

The most expensive fixes at the moment being his recommendation of replacing the king pins, brakes and fixing the suspension. The smaller stuff we could take care of. So we're back to the question of whether to sell this bus and just raise money for a different bus as a template to work off of, or put our money into fixing "Peanut" and have a reliable vehicle for the long term by putting in this investment now.

What do y'all think?

It's easy for any one of us to offer opinions. I'm sure the decision is a hard one to make, given that you have to look at the bus in the yard every day. I wish you the best in your effort!

Recommendation #1:The Prudent Way
In business school they taught us never to make a decision on the basis of sunk funds, so let's assume the initial investment is not a factor. I went back and re-read your original post and the inspection reports and estimates. Honestly, it sounds like a worn out bus, and the work quoted just addresses the tip of the iceberg. Even if you spent that money you wouldn't know what might still be lurking.

More importantly you are probably like me-just an enthusiast with no deep knowledge of the mechanics of a bus.

If you were to sell the bus as is, I'm guessing from your description you might get three grand, maybe more. If you had another ~$4-5K in hand you could probably find a bus that is way more mechanically sound, and focus on building it out (instead of repairing it). Even if it took another year to raise the funds, given what I glean from your posts you'd be further ahead.

Moreover you now know folks in this forum and can ask questions about the buses you are looking at. You now also know a lot more about what to look for in a bus. Welcome to the skoolie life.

Recommendation #2: The Freeform Way
Even with a better bus you're still at the mercy of the fates. In some sense if you just plunk down the cash to fix the kingpins etc, as long as you have a contingency fund for breakdowns (and group travel when the bus is in the shop or on the side of the road) you might be just as well off.

Get it out in the traffic, and see what comes.

 

[MoHA]

Second opinion about the same, so my advice is the same. There was no mention of rust in the second report?

Do you plan to transport 10+ people to your performances?

-The second mechanic said the rust wasn't a large issue

-re:transporting 10+ people, potentially, would like to have that as an option as the goal is for the bus to be a flexible mobile performance platform.