How do I remove Blue Bird interior panels?

[Brad_SwiftFur]

In the process of doing my conversion, I wish to remove some of the interior panels in my bus, specifically the ones just above the windows which I assume are used for housing wiring. They appear to be screwed on. I removed all the visible screws for the one above the driver's seat and it comes loose, but it still attached at the top somehow. The ceiling panels are riveted. How do I remove these without damage? I may wish to reinstall them just as they came out.

Secondly, the front panel above the windshield. The bottom is screwed in place fairly obviously, the top I am unsure. There are screws visible on the ceiling panel but nothing for the front panel. Am I correct in thinking that removing these will allow removal of the front inside panel?

Thanks in advance.

 

[bus-bro]

As I recall that piece of metal above the windows is trapped by the top of the windows.

 

[Jameson-SKO]

I just did mine. The ceiling panel fit into a one inch groove on each transition piece from ceiling to window. Removing the window trim may allow you to pull down on the transition piece and keep your ceiling panels fastened. I removed my ceiling panels first and pulled them up and out of the groove. Then pulled the transition piece up and out of the window trim.

 

[SpartanD1]

Each panel is held in by 2 to 3 screws I know this because I just removed mine and reinstalled them re-installation is not fun

 

[Brewerbob]

Also just did mine last week. There is a fold in the sheet metal that the ceiling panel fits into. I just gave mine a really good yank and they came down. I'm NOT reusing my so when the other end hit the floor, I was more worried about my paint than the panel being bent. If you're putting them back up I would suggest having someone hold the other end.

Zoom in and you can see the fold.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/quaP8h9vVWMe7IVX2

Can't seem to get it to post here4 from Google Drive or FB.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/JtUU1qfAcLOK5AIV2

 

[family wagon]

Secondly, the front panel above the windshield. The bottom is screwed in place fairly obviously, the top I am unsure. There are screws visible on the ceiling panel but nothing for the front panel. Am I correct in thinking that removing these will allow removal of the front inside panel?

As I recall that wall piece between the windshield and the ceiling goes on first. It has little inch-long tabs folded 90 degrees so they're flush with the ceiling metal, and screws went vertically through the ceiling into those tabs. Yes those screws would have to be removed, but probably the front-most section of ceiling also will have to be removed in order to get that above-the-windshield "wall" panel out.

 

[Hobotang]

I'm a visual learner myself, so I thought this might help...

Your ceiling panels fit inside this lip (pictured). I had some issues getting mine complete by myself, but with a partner and a plan - you're good to go.


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[Brad_SwiftFur]

Thanks for the answers. Got both out. The side piece above the driver's window just needed a little 'gentle persuasion'. The one above the windshield needed a second pair of hands - that thing's heavy! ... at least for one person who is trying to guide it around and removing a bunch of wires (which was one reason for removing it in the first place).

 

[jmcustom]

In the process of doing my conversion, I wish to remove some of the interior panels in my bus, specifically the ones just above the windows which I assume are used for housing wiring. They appear to be screwed on. I removed all the visible screws for the one above the driver's seat and it comes loose, but it still attached at the top somehow. The ceiling panels are riveted. How do I remove these without damage? I may wish to reinstall them just as they came out.

Secondly, the front panel above the windshield. The bottom is screwed in place fairly obviously, the top I am unsure. There are screws visible on the ceiling panel but nothing for the front panel. Am I correct in thinking that removing these will allow removal of the front inside panel?

Thanks in advance.

If you want to remove the ceiling panels and reuse them/ re rivet them on, the only way to get them down without destroying the holes the rivets go into is to drill each rivet. Start with a center punch and Mark the center of each rivet, then drill using a 3/32" drill bit just the depth of the rivet head. Follow that with a 3/16" bit to the same depth. Chisel the head of the rivet off with a cold chisel or air chisel and drive the remaining part of the rivet through with a drift punch. This is the only/ most efficient way to be able to reuse the rivet holes.

Does it sound like a major p.i.t.a? It's not that hard, just time consuming. I'm in the process of drilling all of the rivets above and below the windows on my my 40' Amtran in order to do a full roof raise.

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[Brewerbob]

If you want to remove the ceiling panels and reuse them/ re rivet them on, the only way to get them down without destroying the holes the rivets go into is to drill each rivet. Start with a center punch and Mark the center of each rivet, then drill using a 3/32" drill bit just the depth of the rivet head. Follow that with a 3/16" bit to the same depth. Chisel the head of the rivet off with a cold chisel or air chisel and drive the remaining part of the rivet through with a drift punch. This is the only/ most efficient way to be able to reuse the rivet holes.

Does it sound like a major p.i.t.a? It's not that hard, just time consuming. I'm in the process of drilling all of the rivets above and below the windows on my my 40' Amtran in order to do a full roof raise.

I'm not reusing my ceiling panels but I think the holes in the ribs are just fine. Haven't stared at them too closely tho.

Using that air chisel, use the punch bit instead of drilling. I wasted an hour drilling then it occurred to me the 3 pack came with a punch. Put the punch in the drill and hit it with the flapper wheel to make the diameter the same as the rivet for a longer distance. You can probably buy a chisel to the exact diameter but again I don't much care for my application.

It is SOOOO much faster than drilling. The air chisel is a Horrible Freight special. $30 I think for the "fancy" one. They had another that was under $20 IIRC. The chisel set is a Home Depot special; $17.98. Probably $12 more and the same set as Horrible Freight but different day, different location so ... I bought decent drill bits while at H.D.; one 3/16ths and one 11/64ths.

If you aren't using the air chisel, you're burning time. My 15 gallon compressor runs constant with the actual chisel bit but does fairly good with just the punch. I'll do a row or two of pin pushing then switch to cutting the heads off then switch back. The "right way" to do it would be to buy two air guns and just swap back and forth since they are so cheap.

 

[jmcustom]

I'm not reusing my ceiling panels but I think the holes in the ribs are just fine. Haven't stared at them too closely tho.

Using that air chisel, use the punch bit instead of drilling. I wasted an hour drilling then it occurred to me the 3 pack came with a punch. Put the punch in the drill and hit it with the flapper wheel to make the diameter the same as the rivet for a longer distance. You can probably buy a chisel to the exact diameter but again I don't much care for my application.

It is SOOOO much faster than drilling. The air chisel is a Horrible Freight special. $30 I think for the "fancy" one. They had another that was under $20 IIRC. The chisel set is a Home Depot special; $17.98. Probably $12 more and the same set as Horrible Freight but different day, different location so ... I bought decent drill bits while at H.D.; one 3/16ths and one 11/64ths.

If you aren't using the air chisel, you're burning time. My 15 gallon compressor runs constant with the actual chisel bit but does fairly good with just the punch. I'll do a row or two of pin pushing then switch to cutting the heads off then switch back. The "right way" to do it would be to buy two air guns and just swap back and forth since they are so cheap.

So you're saying that you don't drill the rivets partially and then chisel the heads off? I have a nice IR air chisel I'm using but if I want to reuse the holes to install new rivets straight chiseling the rivet heads turns a nice round hole into an oval or obround hole. Please clarify if you would[emoji15]

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[Brewerbob]

So you're saying that you don't drill the rivets partially and then chisel the heads off? I have a nice IR air chisel I'm using but if I want to reuse the holes to install new rivets straight chiseling the rivet heads turns a nice round hole into an oval or obround hole. Please clarify if you would[emoji15]

So here's the 3 pack from Home Depot (random internet pic tho)...

I took the flapper wheel and drill (spinning both) to "shave" down the end of the bit on the left. The point of the bit I kept the same and just removed material a little further up so the 3/16 ish diameter was longer.

I use that to drive the rivet pins out. Same as using a standard punch and a hammer. Only being an air chisel, I don't have to hold with one hand and swing a hammer 398,754,325 times over my head. A sport second and a half burst from the chisel and the pin is pushed out of the way. Then go back with the middle bit and cut the head of the rivet off. Can't tell from this pic but my middle bit is also bent at an angle (think kitchen fork) so you can get the tip right under the rivet head. The little V notch is nice to keep it from slipping. Tho when my air is running low, I find it better to offset the bit so I'm only cutting half of the head. Once I've got a good start on the side, I recenter and the head pops right off. I don't bother with all that when the air is at 90 psi.

Now if you are reusing the holes and want it EXACT, I would probably Amazon a bit that was a straight 3/16ths instead of a tampered point. My holes might not be an interference fit any more but they aren't to start with. All of these rivets are also internal to the bus. The rivet will expand to cover any deviations. Like I said, I haven't gone staring but I haven't seen any grossly oblonged holes that jumped out at me either. I'll be on the bus this afternoon and I'll take some pics for ya. I'll take some pics of the damage to the panels, look for damaged ribs, and some half cut rivets.

 

[family wagon]

Don't tell anybody I told you this, but... I just put a regular punch into the air chisel for driving the mandrels back out of the blind rivets. Obviously there's a risk of launching the punch since it isn't shaped to be captive by the retainer spring, so proceed with caution.

 

[Brewerbob]

Don't tell anybody I told you this, but... I just put a regular punch into the air chisel for driving the mandrels back out of the blind rivets. Obviously there's a risk of launching the punch since it isn't shaped to be captive by the retainer spring, so proceed with caution.

Lol, I was going to say weld a punch, drill bit, etc. to the chisel but I don't know well harden steel welds. All kinds of ways to jury rig it but if he's wanting perfect holes, spend the $5 on a real chisel. That 3 piece was all of $18 at the brick and mortar H.D.

 

[jmcustom]

Lol, I was going to say weld a punch, drill bit, etc. to the chisel but I don't know well harden steel welds. All kinds of ways to jury rig it but if he's wanting perfect holes, spend the $5 on a real chisel. That 3 piece was all of $18 at the brick and mortar H.D.

I have all of the forementioned chisels, I'm just a little bit confused on what good a flapper sanding wheel does to grind down the head of the rivet. The rivets I'm removing are on the outside of the bus and I don't really want to have a ton of unnecessary body work to do after I get everything riveted back together.

Are you referring to a "flapper wheel" being what you would normally install on an angle grinder?

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[Brewerbob]

I have all of the forementioned chisels, I'm just a little bit confused on what good a flapper sanding wheel does to grind down the head of the rivet. The rivets I'm removing are on the outside of the bus and I don't really want to have a ton of unnecessary body work to do after I get everything riveted back together.

Are you referring to a "flapper wheel" being what you would normally install on an angle grinder?

Oh I gotcha (I think). Yes, that flapper wheel. The flapper wheel never came any where near the rivets. I made the pointy chisel pointier using the flapper wheel. The chisel just fits in a regular 3/8 chuck drill. Spin the pointy chisel. Spin the flapper wheel. Now you are sanding the pointy chisel "equally" all the way around instead a little on this side, eyeball it, turn it, sand, eyeball it, turn, sand, eyeball...

Equally is in quotes since my pointy chisel was either bent or off balance and wobbled some in the drill. Not enough to worry about but enough that the new pointy chisel wasn't perfect. Had a bit of a lean in one direction.

Taking a flapper to directly to the rivets has bad news written all over it. It's either going to take too long or you're using 16 grit and no longer have a side on the bus. If you are doing the skins inside under the windows AND don't care about the skins, it might be faster. Those rivets have AL heads not steel. But then the AL might clog up your flapper grit.

 

[Brewerbob]

Thus far my rivet removal has been limited to interior rivets with the pin visible. I haven't tangled with the outside rivets yet.

When I do, the interior skins will be out of the way. I should be able to drill the backside of the rivet out and punch it from the inside. The outside of the bus would remain untouched.

 

[dan-fox]

Or, you could do it the "right" way. The tools don't cost too much more than the bus did.

rivet shaver from Aircraft Tool Supply

 

[jmcustom]

Thus far my rivet removal has been limited to interior rivets with the pin visible. I haven't tangled with the outside rivets yet.

When I do, the interior skins will be out of the way. I should be able to drill the backside of the rivet out and punch it from the inside. The outside of the bus would remain untouched.

I tried drilling from the inside and found out its much easier to drill them from the outside and punch them in. Only drawback is I'm on a ladder all day.

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[jmcustom]

Or, you could do it the "right" way. The tools don't cost too much more than the bus did.

rivet shaver from Aircraft Tool Supply

Yeah, that Sioux drill must be 24k gold plated on the inside, lol. I have a third of the rivets drilled and punched already. My dad will be out to give me a hand drilling the rest tomorrow. I'll be glad when it's done, I doubt that anything else in my build will be as monotonous as drilling the rivets.

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