I think it’s time

[BlueBoy-SKO]

If he completely disassembled the bus to the point of even the C Channels being empty,

If i wanted to do a frame-up restoration. And the answer to that is no.

These electric engines can be turned up and for the most part very reliable.

it may actually come to that. I don’t want to turn this into a lifelong project.

 

[cadillackid]

If i wanted to do a frame-up restoration. And the answer to that is no.


it may actually come to that. I don’t want to turn this into a lifelong project.

the gen 1 electronic internationals (T444E,DT466E) have a simple solution... if its a 3 box (94-97) buy a Hydra.. if its a single box (97.5-04) (up through 06-07 on DT466E) then you buy an Orion...


ive been using the orion since its beta tests years ago and can say that it works and will give you some real power... I did injectors, and HPOP also on my T444E and its fast.. real fast... I dont need the power of the most modern engines .. I can have the non emission engine and the newer engine power... i live in a state without emissions inspections (and have 0 interest of travelling through the Left coast) so im not concerned about retroactive laws in other states...



the old non emissions busses are still readily available.. they still are showing up regularly in the auctions.. buy one and rebuild its drivetrain and you have a ready-for-prime time drivetrain...

 

[BlueBoy-SKO]

the gen 1 electronic internationals (T444E,DT466E) have a simple solution... if its a 3 box (94-97) buy a Hydra.. if its a single box (97.5-04) (up through 06-07 on DT466E) then you buy an Orion...


ive been using the orion since its beta tests years ago and can say that it works and will give you some real power... I did injectors, and HPOP also on my T444E and its fast.. real fast... I dont need the power of the most modern engines .. I can have the non emission engine and the newer engine power... i live in a state without emissions inspections (and have 0 interest of travelling through the Left coast) so im not concerned about retroactive laws in other states...



the old non emissions busses are still readily available.. they still are showing up regularly in the auctions.. buy one and rebuild its drivetrain and you have a ready-for-prime time drivetrain...

I really have my heart set on a Cat 3406B. Or something in an all mechanical engine and manual transmission. But sooner or later reality has to set in.
I'm not in a big hurry so I have some time to look around. But how long do you keep looking and building and looking and building. Time is a bitch! And it's not coming back. I'll come up with a plan soon. I'm not going to "settle" for something that's not going to make me happy in the long run.
I have an 07 Silverado (gasser) and an 04 Jetta TDI both with mild tunes that I do myself. But I don't know enough to get optimal performance in either one. So I play it safe.
Tuning a school bus does sound really appealing. So with a little help from above... I mean from the posts above (and "above"), anything is possible.

Keep on bussin'

 

[Albatross]

I really have my heart set on a Cat 3406B. Or something in an all mechanical engine and manual transmission. But sooner or later reality has to set in.
I'm not in a big hurry so I have some time to look around. But how long do you keep looking and building and looking and building. Time is a bitch! And it's not coming back. I'll come up with a plan soon. I'm not going to "settle" for something that's not going to make me happy in the long run.
I have an 07 Silverado (gasser) and an 04 Jetta TDI both with mild tunes that I do myself. But I don't know enough to get optimal performance in either one. So I play it safe.
Tuning a school bus does sound really appealing. So with a little help from above... I mean from the posts above (and "above"), anything is possible.

Keep on bussin'

You could always sort of pull a compromise with a pre-emissions chassis. Get something that old, and then it doesn't matter what is under the hood; with those restrictions gone, then you could do a complete re-power, because it's not like trying to drop a diesel in a half-ton, you've got all the strength and suspension you should need in a bus.



That way, you're really only looking for a clean chassis with/out an engine/tranny, and then you could look for a powertrain that suits your fancy. With those two done, the only other thing that might need to be made is a custom drive-shaft, which is usually a one-and-done sort of thing. Maybe make up some custom motor mounts, but that's not that hard.

 

[Omnibot2000]

I really have my heart set on a Cat 3406B. Or something in an all mechanical engine and manual transmission. But sooner or later reality has to set in.
I'm not in a big hurry so I have some time to look around. But how long do you keep looking and building and looking and building. Time is a bitch! And it's not coming back. I'll come up with a plan soon. I'm not going to "settle" for something that's not going to make me happy in the long run.
I have an 07 Silverado (gasser) and an 04 Jetta TDI both with mild tunes that I do myself. But I don't know enough to get optimal performance in either one. So I play it safe.
Tuning a school bus does sound really appealing. So with a little help from above... I mean from the posts above (and "above"), anything is possible.

Keep on bussin'

I only worked on 1 3406 back in 2000 or something. Front cover leaking bad. Pulled the camshaft out and had a lobe half scrubbed. Told to put it back together and was sold. It was on a day cab Kenworth. Was pretty straight forward. I kinda liked it

From what your saying, It might work with a dt466e or t444e(depends). If running a short bus driving flat highways a t444e will work. Works fine on my full length with the 5 speed auto, 5.63 gears. 195hp and moves good on flat highways. Yet to try mountains. Depends really what your expectations are though. I don't need crazy power and provincial highways here is 100kph. Federal highways 110kph. It'll do 110 fine. Just the revs would be a little on the high side imo even with the 5 speed overdrive. It's a good weekend warrior engine in a long bus. I have done some digging into the t444e's recently and found in 2000 and newer it appears the engine did come tuned for more bottom end torque. If the ECM came with C195 HP rating vs B195 HP rating they had better torque numbers and further down. The 2 t444e engines I have, 2000 and 2001 model year C195's have waste gated turbos with .84 turbines and 1.1 compressors and they spool pretty good.

DT466E a little better if your really going to cruise the bus. Just please stay away from the 545 auto. 10 years ago it was either standard or the 545. Down side you will very likely have to regear accordingly. More buses now have gone with over drive autos.

You also have the quick plug and play for bumping the HP rating that CK mentioned.

 

[nikitis]

You also have the quick plug and play for bumping the HP rating that CK mentioned.

Unless you have the AT545. I upped mine and it did take was too much HP it caused the 545 to slip too much. Had to back it down until the day I swap out the tranny.

 

[Omnibot2000]

Unless you have the AT545. I upped mine and it did take was too much HP it caused the 545 to slip too much. Had to back it down until the day I swap out the tranny.

Didn't you go up two levels though?

 

[nikitis]

Didn't you go up two levels though?

I did yes. I may try to go to 195HP. It’s at 165 HP now. I went to 210HP.

It may work with 195HP have not tried it yet. The engine is only stamped with 165 and 195, no 210 but I was told it works at 210 and it seemed to work from the engine perspective. I could feel it when it did work.

I’ve since gone on two trips 1500 miles so far and still on the second trip with zero slippage. I didn’t get two miles at 210hp before it completely slipped repeatedly.

 

[Omnibot2000]

I did yes. I may try to go to 195HP. It’s at 165 HP now. I went to 210HP.

It may work with 195HP have not tried it yet. The engine is only stamped with 165 and 195, no 210 but I was told it works at 210 and it seemed to work from the engine perspective. I could feel it when it did work.

I’ve since gone on two trips 1500 miles so far and still on the second trip with zero slippage. I didn’t get two miles at 210hp before it completely slipped repeatedly.

What code did you use? I'm thinking 195 should work. We just sold a 91 or 92 Ford F800 or something. It had a 190 HP inline 6 with a 545

 

[nikitis]

What code did you use? I'm thinking 195 should work. We just sold a 91 or 92 Ford F800 or something. It had a 190 HP inline 6 with a 545

I believe I used 2141 EFRC @2300 210hp values

Not sure if moving to 2300 rpm caused the slippage or not. Would that cause too much torque too quickly for my 545?

There is a efrc 2161 @2600rpm 195hp I could try.

I’m assuming that’s what the values mean that it reaches those hp values at that Rpm.

 

[Omnibot2000]

I believe I used 2141 EFRC @2300 210hp values

Not sure if moving to 2300 rpm caused the slippage or not. Would that cause too much torque too quickly for my 545?

There is a efrc 2161 @2600rpm 195hp I could try.

I’m assuming that’s what the values mean that it reaches those hp values at that Rpm.

The codes see to be recycled and dependent on year. Not sure what year engine build date you have. Is it a 94, 95 or 951/2. I see a 190 HP that is 2121.

I believe your ECM may say A190

In 2000-2001 there is two different ratings. For example a B195 and C195. The C195 having more torque. I believe all the "B" power ratings maxed out at 485 ft lbs torque. With that in my year range I think they also had different turbos without looking back at my EFRC codes. Regardless, a B195 and C195 EFRC code is the same so they are not really interchangable. A code my work but I don't think we really know what we are getting.

My ECM says C175, C195, C210. With saying that, it may have the "C" codes for the high torque rating in it as international probably dumped all the information for the ECM running down the assembly line but just throws on a different sticker as order. So the ECM maybe the same and hold the high torque EFRC codes for 2001 but that same code for 1995 could mean something different. Then international just installs a 230 HP HT sticker on the ECM and installs the ECM on a high torque built motor.

With the recycling of the EFRC numbers I see, we could be doing some silly things. Either to low of a HP rating while expecting something higher or vise versa.

Point I'm getting at. It's my opinion to be safe and stick to the model year of the ECM/engine build.

 

[DeMac]

Standing on green grass

I believe I used 2141 EFRC @2300 210hp values

Not sure if moving to 2300 rpm caused the slippage or not. Would that cause too much torque too quickly for my 545?

There is a efrc 2161 @2600rpm 195hp I could try.

I’m assuming that’s what the values mean that it reaches those hp values at that Rpm.

---------------------

I may be looking at a rebuild on Noah and have looked into other engine options as well. I can't find a comparable option to the 392 I already have. The more I learn only enhances my desire to keep & repair the motor installed

(Noah has a 600cfm carb, de-tuned)

No matter which configuration SV392 is installed in Noah, the hp and specifically torque ratings (note tq rpms) are equal to or superior to any of the cost-comparable options I've found. I'd likley break the bank trying to swap in a 'better' suited motor. A Diesel swap, for instance, would be a bit excessive for such a tiny bus.

 

[Jolly Roger bus 223]

chevy 454 with a holley 850 double pumper.

 

[Omnibot2000]

---------------------

I may be looking at a rebuild on Noah and have looked into other engine options as well. I can't find a comparable option to the 392 I already have. The more I learn only enhances my desire to keep & repair the motor installed

(Noah has a 600cfm carb, de-tuned)

No matter which configuration SV392 is installed in Noah, the hp and specifically torque ratings (note tq rpms) are equal to or superior to any of the cost-comparable options I've found. I'd likley break the bank trying to swap in a 'better' suited motor. A Diesel swap, for instance, would be a bit excessive for such a tiny bus.

But a diesel option from a rusted out northern bus to swap over would make for a cool rig. Even if it's a 5.9 Cummins or t444e. Could go with a 7.3 idi but those are long gone straight from the schools I imagine

Looks like local to me, the last two T444e's sold 6 months ago from the same school division I got mine from. Probably get better mileage if you really travel it

 

[Kentucky Dreaming]

chevy 454 with a Holley 850 double pumper.

Does that mate up to an IH 5-speed manual tranny?

 

[Omnibot2000]

Does that mate up to an IH 5-speed manual tranny?

2 speed power glide

 

[Kentucky Dreaming]

I may be looking at a rebuild on Noah and have looked into other engine options as well. I can't find a comparable option to the 392 I already have. The more I learn only enhances my desire to keep & repair the motor installed

Do you plan to do the work yourself or hire it out? Not sure what I can contribute. Never worked on an IH engine. Only Chevy, Ford & AMC. But I have a helluva Engine stand I built about 40 years ago. Get it balanced and you can spin the engine with one hand.

Precision ground guide pin and bushing from a metal stamping die.

 

[cadillackid]

---------------------

I may be looking at a rebuild on Noah and have looked into other engine options as well. I can't find a comparable option to the 392 I already have. The more I learn only enhances my desire to keep & repair the motor installed

(Noah has a 600cfm carb, de-tuned)

No matter which configuration SV392 is installed in Noah, the hp and specifically torque ratings (note tq rpms) are equal to or superior to any of the cost-comparable options I've found. I'd likley break the bank trying to swap in a 'better' suited motor. A Diesel swap, for instance, would be a bit excessive for such a tiny bus.

have you diagnosed it further down at all? id hoped to have made your event but I missed the timeframe so I didnt get down to help you work on it.. maybe next event you have i can make the time schedule. just wondered if you had pulled the belts or looked at the clutch through the inspection holes etc t osee if in fact the motor broke. have you joined the Loadstar 1600 facebook group?

 

[cadillackid]

The codes see to be recycled and dependent on year. Not sure what year engine build date you have. Is it a 94, 95 or 951/2. I see a 190 HP that is 2121.

I believe your ECM may say A190

In 2000-2001 there is two different ratings. For example a B195 and C195. The C195 having more torque. I believe all the "B" power ratings maxed out at 485 ft lbs torque. With that in my year range I think they also had different turbos without looking back at my EFRC codes. Regardless, a B195 and C195 EFRC code is the same so they are not really interchangable. A code my work but I don't think we really know what we are getting.

My ECM says C175, C195, C210. With saying that, it may have the "C" codes for the high torque rating in it as international probably dumped all the information for the ECM running down the assembly line but just throws on a different sticker as order. So the ECM maybe the same and hold the high torque EFRC codes for 2001 but that same code for 1995 could mean something different. Then international just installs a 230 HP HT sticker on the ECM and installs the ECM on a high torque built motor.

With the recycling of the EFRC numbers I see, we could be doing some silly things. Either to low of a HP rating while expecting something higher or vise versa.

Point I'm getting at. It's my opinion to be safe and stick to the model year of the ECM/engine build.

if i remember rifght the B and C was federal vs california and I think canada got the california programs as their standards were more restrictive than US federal.. I did a lot of experimenting with these.. and found that the codes in the 3 Box 94-97 manual did a good job of representing the T444E and that the power levels seem to be pretty cnsistent through all model years.. an AT545 should be able to take a B or C210 rating.. if it slips then that AT545 is not long for this world... the rating on them was high enough that 210 and the standard torque rating was well within the range of a 545...



the HT codes are rather simple in that they advance the timing a bit and fuel HEAVY on the low end.. thus why the high torque T444E from 94-02 used a different (smaller) turbo... they were simply designed to provide heay low end torque and the GT37 turbo is smaller and spools up quicker so they could use an aggressive fueling curve and then still roll it off at the top end where you wont make any more Horsepower and will not have great amounts of boost...



the only exception to these EFRC codes might be the 02.5 and up as they all (low and high torque) used the same turbo.. ironically similar to the ford 7.3 turbo... that said im running a 2004 ECM in mine and used the 2004 VIN on it.. when I swapped the VIN back and forth (I had a NAVKAL subscriotion so I could download the calibrations from navistar based on VIN) I found very little difference in performance, boost or EGT from each other until i got up in the 230/250 range settings.. then i noticed differences...



NavKal is a connected service with navistar generally used for changing protected parameters through the dealer and getting the latest calibrations.. I changed the VIN and engine serial number using the god mode servicemaxx...



ive since gotten rid of NavKal and have used the Orion tuner for my power-adding.. i dont even begin to run all the power that the Orion can put in.. it has 7 levels and running level 4 the bus hauls ass.. esp since i regeared from 3.54 to 4.44, I really could drop it to level 3 and still have more than enough power to reach the end of most freeway ramps at 65... of course its a 6 window short bus so its not a heavy rig

 

[Omnibot2000]

if i remember rifght the B and C was federal vs california

All B codes maxed out at 485 ft/lbs I believe. On a C rated ECM a C195hp had 520 ft/lbs. The C195 federal was 2121 while the California was 2122 EFRC code.

B codes stopped in 2002 I believe. I'll confirm on a spread sheet. Guess I got some work to do.

Furthermore the 2003 model as per the EFRC code list had a non waste gate turbo for the C215 rating and up. The C210 rating has a waste gated turbo and down.

I pulled these EFRC codes for the 1998 international 3800 series. Could they have had something else for a international 4xxx series. Who knows. I kinda doubt it though.

There was a bump in torque rating starting in 2000. My turbo is waste gated with .84 turbine 1.1 compressor if I recall. My turbo part number matches what international lists so it was not a miss print.