IC. Ce 300 fools gold or not

[Short bus dweller]

Looking to buy me another bus as my most loved ouch bus is nearing its end as the cost to repair outweighs its value
Cheaper to buy another bus as my mechanic says
So I’m looking at the ic ce 300 s as a replacement
But worried about the max force engines
Any one have info on this bus engine

 

[cofrari]

Being Told the 4 is OK, but avoid the 7

We are in the process of purchasing our first bus and have been doing a lot of research on the DT466 vs the MaxxForce 4 vs the MaxxForce 7. From my research and from talking with mechanics, the consensus is that we should be OK with a 4, but we should AVOID the 7.


We originally looked at a 2005 IC CE DT466 (which is still a version of the MaxxForce to my understanding). But we found a 2008 IC CE in much better body condition and less miles, but it had a 4. So we were torn as to what to do: we're we better with the older bus with the DT466, or could we get the newer bus with the 4. From what we are being told, the 4 isn't so bad. The 7 is where IC started to fail on the engine side, causing them to use 3rd parties going forward (Cummins specifically).


Once again, from my understanding, we would have to go back to 1999 to get a true DT466. 2000 and on it became a MaxxForce DT466.


We are about a week away from having to make our decision, so I'm eager to see what other responses you get. And I'm open to correction on anything I just wrote.

 

[Short bus dweller]

Yup I’ve read the same but I found it a bit confusing
As to what is what
Fun fun fun
It’s like work lol

 

[EastCoastCB]

Looking to buy me another bus as my most loved ouch bus is nearing its end as the cost to repair outweighs its value
Cheaper to buy another bus as my mechanic says
So I’m looking at the ic ce 300 s as a replacement
But worried about the max force engines
Any one have info on this bus engine

I'd avoid em.
What year bus you talkin?

 

[Short bus dweller]

Any year 98-97. 200? How’s dat
So what may I ask is a good short bus that looks like a big bus

 

[Short bus dweller]

I’m doing due diligence
As I don’t have money like dat
And my blue bird mini bird p 30 is running on 7 cylinders sometimes 8
piston ring I think
Time to replace. Cheeper to replace then repair

 

[cadillackid]

the DT466 became the Maxxforce DT in 2008, the DT466E received EGR starting in 2004.



2004 was the first year that some real issues began to pop up.. while im still a fan of the DT platform as a whole. (yes even the MFDT).. its golden "modern(electromnic)" years are 95-2003.. the mechanicals started to phase out in 95. though some upo through 98 existed as P-punped mechanicals through 98..



the complexity of the electronics and the engines themselves increased in 2004 with different turbos and the EGR system..



in my opinion for the laymen out there stay pre-04.. for the mechanically and electronically inclined the 04-07 is still a good solid platform.. the 08+ is a pretty good proven platform when run on longer journies and maintained IMPECCABLY.. and driven often.. diesel fuel ages and with DPF filters, clean-burn is imperative.. letting a modern diesel sit like many skoolies like to do (park for 6 months then drive across the country and park again) is bad bad for a DPF equipped engine.. you'll never warm a DPF equipped engine up enough to clear the DPF properly unless you actually drive it long enough to get it nice N hot..





now onto the OP... whats wrong with the current bus that makes it unrepairable?

 

[Short bus dweller]

Thank you for your input

 

[EastCoastCB]

Any year 98-97. 2003
So what may I ask is a good short bus that looks like a big bus

A 2003 wouldn't have a Maxxforce engine.

 

[Short bus dweller]

My p 30. 6.2 is blowing white smoke big time on start up had my mechanic take a go found a bad injector
Put new one in still same
Took off valve cover make sure all was good ,it was did compression test on number two cylinder
No compression. But if I drive it it clears up

 

[Short bus dweller]

Like I know what I’m taking about
That’s why I’m asking

 

[Short bus dweller]

Come on don’t start picking on the mentally challenged
You know I’m not all there lol
Like I know
I’m looking to find the right reliable bus to move into as my p30 is just about done

 

[EastCoastCB]

That's good that you ask.
2003 was about the last decent year for buses. I had an 03 and it was a nice bus.
The main reason to avoid later engines is the unnecessary complexity of emissions engines but another separate issue is the build quality. From the early 2000's on the quality just nosedives. By 2004-2008 buses became a real nightmare to work on and keep operating.
This is why most new buses are gas, propane, etc.

 

[Short bus dweller]

The one I almost got was a 2009 ic. Ce 300 with 169000 miles For 3800$ the guy was uninformed on trans or engine
Looked nice but that don’t pay da bills so to say

 

[EastCoastCB]

The one I almost got was a 2009 ic. Ce 300 with 169000 miles the guy was uninformed on trans or engine
Looked nice but that don’t pay da bills so to say

Those are a real nightmare.
I had a few very good talks with our local navistar service manager. He said he wouldn't even own a post-2003.

 

[cadillackid]

as far as a shorty that looks like a big bus.. all the major manufacturers masde (make) them..



one of my shorties is a carpenter on an international chassis.. carpenter becamse "crown by carpenter" in the mid 90s and ceased in around 2002.. i still see their busses show up..


bluebird and thomas put short bodies on freightliner, GMC, ford, and International chassis.. one of mine is a short 6 window on an international chassis.





Amtran / IC only used international chassis.



in older busses.. Wayne / Superior / Ward / Carpenter / Thomas / Bluebird all put their busses on the various chassis.. (ford, GMC, International, Freightliner)..




later on into the early and mid 00s only 3 big players remain (to this day).. conventional Hood-nose busses only come in a few flavors these days..


Thomas Safe-T-Liner C2 (real modern looking sloped windshields)- generally freightliner based (at least partial daimler owned)


IC bus - fully international owned and uses only international chassis.. looks most like its roots as a ward -> amtran -> IC bus,,



Bluebird - Vision - proprietary chassis - gen 1 reminded me of the family truckster..





in modern times neither CAT nor international make school bus diesel engines... in effect reliability issues related to emissions in the 2008+ years destroyed the reputation of CAT and international for making MD and some HD engines... so they mostly pulled out of the on-road market..




Most Bluebird visions and new IC CE busses come with cummins 6.7s, Thomas offers Mercedes engines as well as Cummins in theirs nowadays..





there are other outliers of busses (REAL crowns, gillig, lion, collins) that you occasionally find in the used market .. crowns and gilligs are collectible and go for BIG $$$

 

[cadillackid]

the first years of Maxxforce were definitely the worst.. the Maxxforce 7.. aka the ford 6.4 was one of the worst ever produced.. they can be bulletproofed like a 6.0. but finding one that still runs properly is a challenge in and of itself.. for the average guy the Maxxforce 7 is a complete stay-away-from.

 

[Short bus dweller]

Thank you for that

 

[cadillackid]

the Maxxfroce 7 was shipped in the IC CE200's. the Maxxforce DT was shipped in the IC CE300s..



pre 08 the VT365 (aka ford 6.0) was shipped in the IC CE200. while the VT365 is better than the MF7 by a huge amount, it still requires generally more than the unknowing guy to maintain and bullet-proof it.. the VT365 isnt powerful enough to require head studs like the Ford 6.0, however EGR cooler upgrade / delete, and oil cooler upgrades arent for the guy who isnt familiar with turning some serious wrenches...

-Christopher..

 

[Short bus dweller]

The 7.6l. 6l is the one to stay away from
Me I’m not trusting any max force now