Is a Skoolie the right choice?

[Gray-SKO]

Hi all, it's been a little bit since I've checked this thread. Thanks for all your input and advice.

I think the worst part about most of the van cut-away chassis are that they are maxed out for weight when built. It's a constantly loaded p'up truck so it wears out quickly...

If you have time to find a bus from one of the western states (WY, CO, UT) where the bus has to go hwy speeds, and hilly areas, it will be maintained and geared the way you'd like it.

Interesting. We're ending the tour this year in that area and I was hoping to bring a bus home with me.

If I look for type 'A2' buses, won't they be certified to pull more weight?

I'd be reluctant to purchase any decades-old out-of-warranty vehicle for use where you have to keep a tight schedule traveling 1000s of miles in order to make a living. I think skoolies make awesome Recreational Vehicles. The difference between recreational & occupational is that when the former breaks down, your source of income doesn't come to a screeching halt.

Breakdowns are something we have to deal with already. Thankfully so far they've happened at just the right time and we've only missed a single show. We find a mechanic, leave the car with them, get a rental, keep going and circle back when the repair is done. Having to leave my house behind would be a painful experience even for a few days, but it's a reality I've considered.

If I were you I might get a large cut away style bus, like a Ford Chevy diesel. Then get a hitch with an enclosed trailer carrying all your stuff in there. The smaller bus could get worked on by most regular shops and towed by a smaller cheaper truck than a big bus. Don’t get a Sprinter, they’re junk and will send you to the poor house with repairs.

I definitely cannot afford a sprinter, haha. I'm looking into the cutaway buses right now and they do seem like a good choice as far as MPG and part/service availability. Ceiling height after floor treatments is still a concern.

I was originally thinking about a trailer hitch like this.. but it's going to be really important to be able to park in a regular parking space because of the sorts of places we go to. My neighbor does some welding. I'll probably ask him to make some undercarriage boxes for extra storage.

I currently live out of two bags (food, clothes) and a cooler with only a few extraneous items in the car. (Hot plate, pots and pans, water filter.) After looking at tons of floor plans, I don't think moving my life into a mini skoolie will be a more severe spacial restriction and I'm much less worried about it.

 

[PNW_Steve]

I had an E-450 cutaway (diesel) and consistently got 1-2 mpg more than my full size Bluebird.

With the seats and interior metal removed it drove fine. When I loaded the back with furniture during my move and came to the conclusion that I was really going to keep a watch on weight.

Then I had to work on it

The access to the engine was HORRIBLE. I mentioned it to a fleet mechanic who maintained a bunch of E-450 cutaways. He told me that it was easier to work on them if you remove the body from the chassis. I was a bit skeptical then I saw them do it and engine was almost as good as my RE.

I personally don't care for cutaways. I had to buy one to figure that out.

Just my $0.02

 

[Gray-SKO]

I had an E-450 cutaway (diesel) and consistently got 1-2 mpg more than my full size Bluebird.

With the seats and interior metal removed it drove fine. When I loaded the back with furniture during my move and came to the conclusion that I was really going to keep a watch on weight.

Then I had to work on it

The access to the engine was HORRIBLE. I mentioned it to a fleet mechanic who maintained a bunch of E-450 cutaways. He told me that it was easier to work on them if you remove the body from the chassis. I was a bit skeptical then I saw them do it and engine was almost as good as my RE.

I personally don't care for cutaways. I had to buy one to figure that out.

Just my $0.02

I heard about this while I was looking around, apparently lots of shops won't even touch them. Thanks for confirming it's a real issue and something to be aware of. It's a concern but might have to be a trade off because I really need something that can handle highway speeds, climbing, gets decent MPG, and fits in a regular parking space.

Are there type A buses, mini buses, which are not cutaways? It seems like that's all that is available at that size.

Edit: Der. The definition of a type A is a cutaway. So, at this size, it doesn't seem like there's any getting around the cons. I'll have to research if different chassis types have better engine access.

 

[Gray-SKO]

Der. The definition of a type A is a cutaway. So, at this size, it doesn't seem like there's any getting around the cons. I'll have to research if different chassis types have better engine access.

Posting what I've found here to keep the thread updated and help future readers.

Seems like all the cutaways have the same issue. And I'm also reading in lots of posts that the cutaways run at 100% all the time just to pull their own weight, meaning parts wear out faster.. and the limited engine access means more time spent in the shop and higher repair costs.

Also, van chassis buses tend to have a higher initial asking price and more bidders.

But! There are type C aka 'conventional' buses that are made short. I can't really find much info about their specifications or MPG.

Does anyone know if a conventional shortie can comfortably go highway speeds, navigate mountains, get 10-12 MPG, and fit in a standard parking space? If they can, it's definitely worth comparing them with the type A's. If not, I might cut my losses and turn to researching vans.. if there are even any I'll be able to stand up in.

 

[Bon Voyage]

Engine work on a van is going to be nearly just as expensive as a cutaway. It’s just as crammed in there as the front ends are the same. and any major work will also require lifting the body off the frame; cutaway might be a little more there as it’s bigger. If somebody will do work on a van I don’t see why they wouldn’t work on a cutaway. call a couple diesel shops and ask them.

You might consider a small box truck. Like uhaul style; there’s a few different sizes.

 

[plfking]

Does anyone know if a conventional shortie can comfortably go highway speeds, navigate mountains, get 10-12 MPG, and fit in a standard parking space? If they can, it's definitely worth comparing them with the type A's. If not, I might cut my losses and turn to researching vans.. if there are even any I'll be able to stand up in.

Mine is a hair under 24" b-t-b, and 'almost' fits a standard space.....close enough for government work. Around 62 mph (many are faster -- depends on gearing), climbed the mountains of KY, TN, and NC without ever downshifting, gets a little over 11 mpg. I specifically wanted a conventional for it's beefier chassis and better ground clearance.

 

[Bon Voyage]

When I had the engine on my old Ford Excursion redone it was sort of a toss up between pulling the body off the frame or pulling the engine out the front. They ended up pulling it out the front because I wanted the charge air cooler resealed so pulling everything off the front was easier.
So if in the unlikely case you need major engine work I don’t think it would necessarily be more expensive in a cutaway then a van. But like I said I’d ask a few diesel shops what they’d think of working on a cutaway.

If you get a 2002 or older ford cutaway with the 7.3 I don’t think you need to worry about it being overloaded all the time. They put those engines in full size buses (T444(E)). And the B50 on the T444 is 350,000 miles. Meaning 50% of those engines require a major overhaul by 350,000 miles.

 

[Brad_SwiftFur]

If you get a 2002 or older ford cutaway with the 7.3 I don’t think you need to worry about it being overloaded all the time. They put those engines in full size buses (T444(E)). And the B50 on the T444 is 350,000 miles. Meaning 50% of those engines require a major overhaul by 350,000 miles.

I have an IH similar in size to Don's, as show above. Fairly common size.


I disagree about the statements on the Ford chassis, not because of the engines, but because Ford transmissions, limited radiator size and capacity, lack of turbocharging/Charge Air Cooler, and most importantly chassis, axle, springs and brake weight capacity. Many are close to the GVWR when they were built.


Mine and Don's, and thousands of similar medium duty chassis will have *MUCH* higher weight capacities - mine, for example, is a 25,500 GVWR and (I haven't weighed it but I'm guessing) 11K empty weight. I'd have to work pretty hard to pile 14K pounds of anything inside this small of a bus. Raise the hood and engine access is easy. Fuel economy of 10 MPG should be easily manageable if driven sanely (mine's geared way too low), and the one thing I like is that school buses are *Everywhere* and parts are widely available.


An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, so doing regular pre-trips (and doing thorough checks!) will avoid a lot of breakdowns. Doing a post-trip will identify anything that needs fixed (while you do your gig and have downtime for the repair work to be done) so it'll be ready for the next run.


Also, you'll want to keep a small inventory of spare stuff on the bus at all times, like belt(s), fuel filters (many diesels have more than one, make sure to have spares of each), fuses, tools, fluids (oil and coolant), a working fire extinguisher and reflective triangles (*ALL* buses should have had these while in service, the selling district may have cannibalized these items for other buses). A first aid kit. Spare key. A list of common maintenance parts like oil filter, fuel filter, fan belt sizes/part numbers, tire size(s). One thing I like about a medium duty bus chassis is more room and plenty of weight capacity for under-floor mounted side storage boxes (this will compete for underfloor water/waste tank space, though).

 

[Bon Voyage]

I have an IH similar in size to Don's, as show above. Fairly common size.


I disagree about the statements on the Ford chassis, not because of the engines, but because Ford transmissions, limited radiator size and capacity, lack of turbocharging/Charge Air Cooler, and most importantly chassis, axle, springs and brake weight capacity. Many are close to the GVWR when they were built.

All I'd say is if they are built at capacity it's capacity with a bus load of passengers. It depends what you're putting in the bus to carry around; also consider if it's a F450, F550 or F650 (or GM versions) chassis which will all have different weight capacity. Yes a big shorty will carry much more but for some it would be unnecessary. Just check out the weight capacities on anything you consider buying and see what you need.
I can't speak to the charge air cooler/radiator size or transmissions except I've never heard of overheating problems in the Ford 7.3. If the turbo's are smaller in the Fords as it sounds might be the case, then that will likely transfer into less strain on the engine than in a T444. The Ford's are rated at a higher horsepower but with a lower torque than the International's. There's so much to consider when buying a conversion project. My main point was really just between a full size van and a cutaway I don't think you'll see a big difference in costs for repairs and there's still lots of weight allowance available, so don't be so quick to forget about them.

Ford and GM's are everywhere and parts readily available. Getting parts for my Thomas is much more difficult than parts from a Ford or GM dealer or Amazon or Autozone etc... There are no Thomas parts on Amazon or Autozone. And There's less than 1 Thomas dealer per state; they will ship parts if they haven't discontinued them. Sometimes the other place has them... what it called... ancient parts... no... old parts... retro parts.... no.... can't remember. Anyway they ship them if they have them. If not, maybe they can be found elsewhere... hopefully.

It sounds like the priorities for the op are small enough to fit in a parking stall, tall enough to stand in, cruise at highway speeds and enough room to store all the supplies. Everything else might be secondary to those priorities.

Most buses now a days can cruise at highway speeds without a problem, my 2001 will go 80 MPH if I wanted to, slower on the mountains for sure. Big factor for highway speed is the rear differential ratio. Check it out before you by if you can. They can be changed out if you end up with a bad one like 6.1:1 on my first bus, but I think it might be $1000-$2000 range to do so.

 

[Sharee100]

Can you provide the specifics? Chevy What? How many windows/seats? And any other info you can provide will help others help you. I don't have a skoolie; I have a shuttle. It is a 2001 Chevy Express Cutaway 3500. But it is a diesel. 5 windows. 6.5L turbo diesel. With an El Dorado shell. My shuttle doesn't have a back door nor a handicap lift door and only one seat in the front (driver). I get about 10-12 mpg. I drove it cross Country for the first time last month. Diesels don't like cold.

 

[cowlitzcoach]

It sounds as if you are conflicting requirements that make it difficult to make a recommendation. But I will make a stab at some generalizations. My opinion and $2.00 can buy you a cup of coffee at Denny's!


Type 'A' buses are built on van cut-away chassis. It doesn't matter if the bus is a commercial bus or a school bus, any bus built on a van cut-away chassis is a lot more bus than there is truck underneath to carry it around. I have seen a LOT of small buses that have a net payload of only 2,000 pounds. That doesn't give you a lot of net payload by the time you add all of your junk and plunder. An Isuzu or Mistubishi box truck would be a much better choice if you wanted something that size.


Type 'B' buses are built on a flat rail chassis and are commonly referred to as bread box buses because they use the same basic frame as bread delivery trucks. Much like the Type 'A' buses there is more bus on top than there is truck underneath and have limited net payloads as well. One upside to the Type 'B' buses is the removal of the dog house next to the driver makes accessing most of the engine relatively easy compared to the Type 'A' bus.


Type 'C' buses are built on medium duty truck chassis. Currently your choices are IC (International), Thomas (Freightliner), and Blue Bird (Volvo, sort of). Going back to the late '90's and early 00's the choices included Ford and GM. Engine choices included Cummins, Mercedes-Benz, Ford of Brazil, Cat, and International. 99+% of school buses of this type had Allison automatics with the vast majority of them being the AT540 on the older buses and 2000 on the newer buses. Most Type 'C' buses have a net payload that is about equal to the empty weight of the bus. 12,000 empty weight, 24,000 GVWR. Which means you can stuff a LOT of junk and plunder into a bus before you run out of net payload.



Type 'D' buses have the service door in front of the front axle. The engine can be mounted in the front, under the floor in the middle, or in the rear. Engine choices run the spectrum from low HP V-8 diesels to high HP I-6 diesels.



Real world fuel mileage for a Type 'A' bus with a modern electronically controlled gas engine will be in the 10-13 MPG range. A diesel of the same vintage will get 12-14 MPG. Some people will get better but in talking to operators who run thousands of miles per week, these are the numbers they report. Type 'B' buses with the same engine and transmission package will get about 1-2 MPG less.


Real world fuel mileage for a Type 'C' and Type 'D' buses is going to be in the 6-12 MPG range. It all depends upon what engine, transmission, gearing, and to what use the bus is being subjected. We had ten Blue Bird TC2000 buses that had identical Cummins 6BT engines. We had one that got 12-13 MPG and one that got 8-9 MPG. The bus I drove was consistent in the 9-10 MPG range. The 12-13 MPG bus ran flat land with a five mile highway dead head, the 8-9 MPG bus ran a hill route with no highway work, and my bus had some hills and five miles of highway dead head.



Some buses had the high headroom option with 78" headroom. Otherwise, depending upon the model year the standard headroom could be anywhere from 70" to 74".



I think that once you determine what it is exactly you want to do you will be in a better position to make a decision. A shorter Type 'D' bus with a rear lift might be your best choice as most of them came with the high headroom option. It may require upgrading to a better transmission but a Thomas Saf-T-Liner EF with a 210 HP Cummins 6BT and Allison MT640 with the right gearing would be more than able to cruise all day at 60-65 MPH and get 10-12 MPG. The lift and rear emergence door would allow you to load and unload all of your show equipment easily while still leaving a lot of space for a converted living space that would provide space for sleeping, eating, and basic bathroom facilities.

 

[Mat7783]

I am also a newbie in the Skoolie world but have learned a ton and at 6’1” tall, I understand your concern. The standard interior height is 72 to 73 “ to the highest point. If you plan on putting tongue and groove on ceiling and rebuilding your floor, you will lose at least 2.5 to 3 inches. There are buses with optional high tops which are 77 to 78”. A trick to know is the driver side passenger windows will be higher than the driver window instead of level. Those are the buses for you to consider