Living Unleashed

[baadpuppy]

I know a box truck isn't a true skoolie, but it shares a lot of similarities. Personally, I identify more with the skoolie community than the vanlife community. Most of my conversion knowledge came from this site over the past 16 or so years.

So this is my 3rd actual attempt at a conversion. Already, I am further along than I ever got with a bus.

So, to not turn this into a novel, here are my goals with this conversion:

• Have a full time livable setup
• Be able to be off-grid for at least 2 weeks (sufficient tankage)
• Be able to remain mobile
• Must have shower, toilet, sink, no planet fitness for me
• Able to remain comfortable (A/C required)

I have been working towards a conversion for more than a decade, and have a ton of things I have picked up along the way for that purpose, so I can just use a lot of those things to get going.

I have a 48v battery bank, inverter/charger for it (5kW), propane hot water heater from recpro, mobile home / RV doors, many solar panels, between 1500W and 2000W worth, roof rack brackets, and a ton of other misc stuff.

Boring background information:

My first bus was a Thomas rear engine, hi-top, and I was starting a roof raise on it when a relationship happened. In the course of the relationship, priorities shifted, and that project languished until it was decided to scrap it. Huge mistake. I also scrapped the traditional style gas engine bus I had used as a mobile shed at the same time.

My second bus was also a Thomas, which originated in a county in western Maryland where they salt the roads but never wash the undercarriage of the busses. During the time I had it, it ceased being startable due to severe corrosion of most of the wiring. A friend bought it cheap, and spend several weekends replacing the bare minimum amount of wire to get it to crank and run. He then spent a few months completely replacing all the primary wiring harnesses, while also doing a minimal conversion with it, and living in it at the same time. He was successful, and has even unlocked 6th gear in the transmission.

I briefly considered converting my 7'x14' cargo trailer, but I just could not make everything fit, so I abandoned that idea, instead trading it towards the truck I got.

This is a 2004 E350 "Super Duty" 6.0L powerstroke engine, cutaway van, with a 16' box that has a ~4' over-cab space, for about 20' in total roof length. Lots of room for solar panels! It had a roll up rear door that was unsprung due to brackets rusting out for the tension cables. There was also a cab pass-through for the connected bulkhead.

Edit:

I should mention the GVWR is 11,500lbs. Due to it being over 10,000 lbs, my insurance agency forced me to put a commercial policy on the truck.

Kentucky has issues with RV conversions currently, with regulations shifting rapidly, and a lot of agency officials refusing to take responsibility for approving them. So, I decided to just stick with it being a basic truck/van, and not worry about the RV side of things.

My commercial policy on this truck is cheaper than my non-commercial policy on my other two vehicles. So I have no real reason to complain I suppose.

The tag office insisted that due to the commercial policy, they had to put commercial style tags on, but they helpfully put the 10,000 lb ones on. The insurance company and the tag office and the sheriffs office have all assured me this does not make it a commercial vehicle as long as I am not using it for commercial purposes but only for private purposes. So far, that is working for me. I do plan to put some stickers on to indicate it is for private use only, not for hire, etc. I scraped off the original DOT stickers as that is no longer accurate, and I felt having them would open me up for DOT checks and trouble for being inaccurate.

 

[baadpuppy]

I bought this truck exactly 1 year ago today, 2023-09-13.

Driving it from KY to VA, went mostly trouble free. First, the A/C does not work, but I haven't worried about that yet. Heat works great. Cruise control also works great. Before the trip, I put a set of new tires on, and had the engine serviced at a local shop (oil change, coolant change, filtered changed, etc).

During the trip, I averaged 13.5 MPG. Unfortunately, I did have to take it off cruise control in the mountains because the turbo isn't working quite right due to a MAP sensor failure. I have not dug into that yet other than to replace the MAP sensor itself (no help), and to buy FORScan and an adapter which I have not yet set up. I do have a local shop to take it to in VA that will be able to deal with any issues there.

I did have a OBD based gauge tool on the trip. Coolant and exhaust gas temps stayed reasonable the whole time.

Frankly, I am happy with 13.5 MPG with a semi-functional turbo, and I expect it to be a bit better once the turbo issue is resolved. The last bus I drove on the same trip averaged 7MPG as a point of comparison.

It is not my intention to do long haul driving with this truck very often, and certainly not before getting the turbo fixed and adding in some gauge pods on the A pillar to keep an eye on the important things.

For most of the past year, the truck has just been moved around the yard. I did not start any serious work on it until May of this year.

The first thing I did was cut a big square doorway into the rollup door. NOTE: I do not recommend doing this! I added some metal hinges and steel bars to turn the cut-out part into a "door" and added a hasp and lock, just so I could start getting into the box and working on it.

In retrospect, I would have been much better off crawling in and dismantling the roll up door to begin with, since it turned out to be so easy to do, then using a tarp over the opening to keep the wildlife and weather out. Oh well, you live and learn, or you don't live long, right?

During this time period, I also needed to assist in making the property ready for sale. This has take much of my free time and energy. Combined with an increased workload at work for projects, I have not been as diligent in the conversion as I wished.

One reason for this build thread is to help hold myself accountable for Getting Things Done. So this helps to motivate me.

Pics with my asinine "door" in the rollup door attached. If you look closely, you can see the hinges and hasp.

 

[baadpuppy]

I knew I wanted to insulate the walls, and suspected that behind the plywood walls was an empty cavity. So, time for some exploratory surgery!

I removed the tie down brackets and the screws holding the plywood to the wall framing. As I guessed, the walls are hollow, with lots of room to add insulation.

There is about a 1 inch gap, but I plan to put 2x2 boards on each of the ribs to make that more like 2.5 inches of insulation space. This will hopefully also add a little more of a thermal break between the outside skin and inside walls.

The outside skin is aluminum sheeting, riveted into place to the ribs.

The ribs are galvanized steel, almost a Z shape only more of a 90 degree angle, and the inner wall section has the edge curled back towards the outer wall a tiny bit. There appears to be some kind of glue between the aluminum skin and the steel ribs.

The passenger side of the truck met with some obstacles in its life, leaving a deep crease. Fortunately, the steel ribs bend back into shape relatively easily. I do not mind the creases so much.

There is one spot where the skin is peeled open from hitting something. I plan to put an extra door in that spot, so the hole will be cut out and not be a problem.

I did discover some wasps nesting in that wall cavity where the exterior opening is, but after a few weeks they moved out. Maybe the can of diesel fuel I stored in there bothered them.

For my finished walls, I actually want to put the original plywood back up, including the strap tie-downs, so I numbered them on the back side, and saved them. I will need to cut them down to fit back in due to the flooring changes and ceiling changes, but that will be easy enough to do. This should also help preserve some of the box strength (reduced due to the 2x2 usage of course). It also helps save money on materials.

And some more attachments... Sorry the pics are sideways.

 

[baadpuppy]

I should mention that the truck came with some spare parts.

There is an extra radiator, torque converter, and turbo that were in the box area. I think also a compressor.

The man I bought it from typically buys the used box trucks, cuts the box off and sells it to people for storage shed, and yanks the engines/transmissions and sells those off, and any other parts people might want. This was a truck that he had a buyer for the engine that backed out, so he never removed it, but he had parts from one of the others stored in it.

In any case, until I got that back door removed, I had to work around all those parts.

One of my big disappointments was the pass through door was terrible. At some point, the tracks failed, and someone just screwed the door to the bulkhead and left it like that. The opening was small and cramped, and very difficult to access, especially with the glove box and cup holder assembly in place on the engine access cover.

I looked closely at the pass through and realized that the bulkhead for it was about 8 to 10 inches inside the box itself, and not structural nor required for weather proofing. I decided I would remove it and open the cab to the interior, similar to a class C RV. I had hopes that the seats would recline more (they do not) or that this would make enough room to eventually install rotating captains chairs (unlikely to work). The one big thing was I wanted it to be easier to crawl into the back from the cab.

I tried removing the bolts on the brackets. Some came out, others just spun the rivnuts in place. I eventually took a circular saw to part of it to finish removing it. NOTE: this was not the best idea. It seems the plywood was covered with fiberglass laminated to it. So, I was covered in that dust, and breathed some of it. Not a smart move by any means. If you are reading this and choose to do something similar, wear protective gear and a good mask. I itched for days, and who knows what it did to my lungs.

But with some effort, I was finally successful. The bulkhead was removed, and it makes a HUGE difference on accessibility.

Intellectually, I knew the box was much wider than the cab. It is obvious just from looking at it. But in my mind, somehow, I never really grasped just how much difference there is. Seeing the bulkhead removed and knowing that there is only about a few inches of connection between the cab and box really hammers home that difference.

More pics attached.

 

[baadpuppy]

Next on the list was removing the rollup door.

There are a lot of videos online about how to do this. Follow those, they are good, especially the ones about unloading the tension on the springs. Safety first!

I was fortunate that there was no tension on my springs. I was unfortunate for the same reason.

The rollup door is basically 3/4" plywood tongue and groove sections with hinges, and rollers. It is VERY heavy, and those springs are essential to make it manageable.

I was able to use a drill to drill out the rivets on the hinges and use a wonder bar to pry them loose, and pull the panels out one at a time. After I got the panels removed, I drilled out the rivets for the tracks, and removed the screws that were used, and got the tracks removed. Onto the scrap pile they went.

I put a tarp over the rear held with magnets. That lasted for a weekend, then blew off, so I stopped using it. It was late enough in the year, I did not have an issue with any birds trying to nest in there.

Once the door was removed, I removed the rest of the plywood panels (except the over-cab area, still need to do the last 2).

Pics attached.

 

[baadpuppy]

I knew I wanted a door in the rear wall. I was not sure exactly how I was going to handle things, so I spent some time researching other projects like this, before deciding to do my own thing.

I bought pressure treated 2x4s for this work. I used double sided butyl tape (think eternabond) between the 2x4s and the steel frame of the opening. I drilled pilot holes and used TEKS self-tapping screws to mount the boards to the steel frame. I then started to put up some studs. First for the framing of the door opening (34" wide) which I had already bought, then another pair of 2x4s where one 15/32" plywood sheet would end so that I knew the other sheet would have a good anchor point.

I have cut both sheets of 15/32" plywood and test fit them, and also test-fit the door in the frame, but I have not yet installed any of those.

I still need to add some more studs on the port/driver's side but currently I am leaving that open to make it easier to get large things in/out for the flooring.

And more attachments.

 

[baadpuppy]

Next up was tackling the floor. But first, I needed to find the floor.

So, everything needed to be removed.

The spare parts were set aside out of the way, for later disposition.

The rollup door is also set aside in case I need anything from them. After all, there are large chunks of 3/4" plywood there.

The interior walls are in a shed out of the weather.

I cleaned a lot of junk out, including a ton of misc stuff from the original furniture moving company. Bed frame kits, misc screws and bolts, mirror attachment kits, dryer cord kits, etc. Quite a lot of stuff actually.

I swept out the box multiple times to get down to the bare wood floor.

I cut 2" thick foam insulation sheets, and used subfloor adhesive to attach them to the floor. That is where things stand now.

Next up is to use aluminum tape to tape over the seams in the foam insulation, then cut some 23/32" tongue and groove OSB subfloor panels to sit atop the foam boards. They will also be glued down. There will also be adhesive in the tongue/groove connection. Once that has cured, I plan to paint the floor with elastomeric paint, the same stuff I plan to coat the roof in. I have a 5 gallon bucket of it.

Finishing up the floor is on the schedule for tomorrow morning. I hope to have status updates tomorrow evening.

And more pics:

 

[baadpuppy]

To address any possible confusion about the KY and VA thing...

I own property in Kentucky, and that is my legal domicile. That is where I am developing things for my planned retirement.

I am currently working for a state mandated and financed non profit in Maryland, on the Delmarva peninsula. The office is based out of Salisbury MD, and we serve agencies in all 8 counties of Maryland on the peninsula.

I have been squatting in a free garage apartment in Virginia (about 1h15m drive from the office) when here, but that property is being sold soon, and I will no longer have access once that happens.

I am doing the build on that property as I am also involved in preparing the property for sale. Yes, that does result in priority conflicts at times.

I have a lot lined up with electric, water, and septic but that is about 30 minutes farther from work than this property, so I am planning to use it for the weekends.

I have parking locations near work lined up for overnight stays, but with no hookups.

I have a storage facility lined up for storing my vehicles. Since I can only drive one at a time, the other two will be stored. But, I can drive my minivan from work to storage facility, hop in the box truck and drive it to the overnight spot, then reverse the process the next day. This keeps the storage place happy that I am not living there, and gives me some assurances that my vehicles are safe where they are parked.

Once I get a trailer hitch on the box truck, my next step is to get a flatbed trailer so I can tow my minivan on it. At that point, I will need to decide whether to sell my suburban. It has over 250K miles, and is fully paid off, and still runs great, so I am hesitant. but, I can only drive one at a time, and even towing can only drive one and tow one, so that complicates life.

That is a decision I am putting off for the future for now.

Jim

 

[Kentucky Dreaming]

Cool start of your conversion, Jim! If you get back here to Kentucky and need a simpleminded but eager to learn helper, look me up.

I'm following closely....

 

[baadpuppy]

Before I get into today's work, I should point out that the only helper I have right now is my almost 72yr old mother. She happens to be vertically challenged. There are limits to just how much she can help, but she really helps a lot!

Today's goal was to get the subfloor down. I would have liked to have gotten more done, but it just wasn't in the cards.

I am sure every skoolie converter can relate when I mention that the box is a great big metal oven. Consider that the only windows I can open are the driver and passenger door windows, and airflow just isn't a real thing.

Even parked in the shade, it gets hot in there, limiting how much we can do in one go.

Regardless, we did manage to get all 4 sheets of 23/32" OSB tongue and groove subfloor cut and installed.

First thing I did was put down aluminum duct tape down all the seams for the 2" thick foam boards.

I measured several times for paranoia's sake, and cut the boards to fit. It was a struggle for the two of us to move the boards around, then for me to juggle them around inside the bus to get them to lay right. I first test fit, then put down construction subfloor adhesive and put the boards back again. I put adhesive in the tongue/groove connection point as well, and used a 2x4 with a dead blow hammer to get them to go together.

I added some weight to help hold the boards down tight to maximize adhesion.

The tongue and groove did not go perfectly together, as I just did not have the ability to really clamp them together. I plan to hit the seams with wood filler, then sand them smooth.

Once that is done, I want to put a layer of paint on there. Ultimately, I plan to put linoleum on top.

4 sheets of board installed. and it took most of the day. Some days are just like that though.

With these boards down, I can start seriously working on space planning, as well as trying to get the rear closed in.

Jim

 

[baadpuppy]

Cool start of your conversion, Jim! If you get back here to Kentucky and need a simpleminded but eager to learn helper, look me up.

I'm following closely....

My property is in southern Fleming county, just a few miles from the Bath county line, and not that far off of route 11. I get out that way a few times each year. It varies from only 2 times one year to 14 times one year.

I was lucky enough to be able to assist Kazetsukai with his bus a few times when he was in KY.

Next year I am planning to do a long trip visiting friends in GA, TN, KY, and might even hit IN and IL while I am at it.

It would be nice to hit one of the skoolie gatherings at some point. I also want to hit the two major hamfests at some point, those being hamcation down in florida and dayton (xenia) in OH.

I will drop you a note next time I am in KY with the truck, and perhaps we can meet up and trade war stories of conversion efforts.

Thank you for the kind offer,
Jim

 

[skoontz]

Just a thought on the towing of cars: if the suburban is 4x4 with a neutral position on the transfer case, you may be able to flat tow it behind your truck. Could save needing a trailer

 

[baadpuppy]

Just a thought on the towing of cars: if the suburban is 4x4 with a neutral position on the transfer case, you may be able to flat tow it behind your truck. Could save needing a trailer

The suburban can be towed 4 down, if configured with the right equipment of course. When operating properly, there is a way to put the transfer case in neutral, and then it is happy.

At this moment, the 4x4 system has some kind of failure I have not had time or resources to track down, so it is "stuck" in 2 high.

My other vehicle is a 2018 pacifica minivan front wheel drive, and it cannot be towed 4 down. It has a super low profile, so using a tow dolly would probably result in the rear dragging at times.

The biggest reason I want a flatbed trailer is that it can be backed, while 4 down and tow dolly cannot be backed up.

Thank you for the suggestion, I appreciate the thought.

Jim

 

[nikitis]

Next up was tackling the floor. But first, I needed to find the floor.

So, everything needed to be removed.

The spare parts were set aside out of the way, for later disposition.

The rollup door is also set aside in case I need anything from them. After all, there are large chunks of 3/4" plywood there.

The interior walls are in a shed out of the weather.

I cleaned a lot of junk out, including a ton of misc stuff from the original furniture moving company. Bed frame kits, misc screws and bolts, mirror attachment kits, dryer cord kits, etc. Quite a lot of stuff actually.

I swept out the box multiple times to get down to the bare wood floor.

I cut 2" thick foam insulation sheets, and used subfloor adhesive to attach them to the floor. That is where things stand now.

Next up is to use aluminum tape to tape over the seams in the foam insulation, then cut some 23/32" tongue and groove OSB subfloor panels to sit atop the foam boards. They will also be glued down. There will also be adhesive in the tongue/groove connection. Once that has cured, I plan to paint the floor with elastomeric paint, the same stuff I plan to coat the roof in. I have a 5 gallon bucket of it.

Finishing up the floor is on the schedule for tomorrow morning. I hope to have status updates tomorrow evening.

And more pics:

How much did you pay for you 2in foam board? I’m trying to find some cheaper than $53 a sheet. Seems outrageous.

 

[baadpuppy]

How much did you pay for you 2in foam board? I’m trying to find some cheaper than $53 a sheet. Seems outrageous.

I wish it was only $53/sheet. At Lowes here it was a bit over $60/sheet.

Good luck!

Jim

 

[Rucker]

Great build thread! You're doing all the right things.

I'm jealous 'cuz my '99 E450 only gets 10 miles per gallon.

A box truck build will be 'easier' because, well, no curves to speak of. Also, no windows to leak, or remove. I've seen a number of youtube videos of these built out, the possibilities are quite endless.

Do you envision this build to be somewhat 'stealth'?

 

[nocoasty]

Man, I've considered getting a box truck more times than I can count. There's a 4x4 Fuso in seemingly great shape about 15 minutes from me that the owners have been trying to sell for way too long. There's just no real market for vehicles converted into alternative dwellings in my area, so my guess is they haven't found the right business that needs a box truck.

 

[baadpuppy]

Another day, and a much emptier wallet.

Today, I picked up the insulation for the walls and some for the ceiling.

The walls will be 1" foamboard tucked in behind the ribs and glued with spray adhesive to the skin. Then I will run 2x2 boards horizontally as girts, and fill the horizontal run with 2 layers of .75" (total: 1.5") foamboard. That will add up to 2.5" of total insulation at the overlap points. Granted, where the girts are will be less insulation, as wood doesn't have the best R value.

The 2" under the subflooring is R10.

The 1" sheets are R5.

The .75" sheets are R3.75.

Walls will be R12.5 at the maximum coverage spots.

I bought 14 1" sheets, and 16 .75" sheets. They bundled my 1" sheets together with an extra one on the bottom, and some white foam as spacers under it, so I got an extra sheet. Sadly, the extra sheet is cracked, and was glued to the spacers and the plastic wrapper, but hey, it was free! I am sure I can find some use for it.

so my math is this:
16' wall, almost 8' tall = 4 sheets per wall = 8 sheets. + same dimensions for ceiling so 4 sheets for the ceiling = 12 sheets. that covers the 16' box, then there's the ~4' over-cab area. so add 1 sheet for the ceiling, and 1 sheet for the two side walls = 16 sheets of 1".

For the .75", I won't be using it in the ceiling (probably, more on that later). But I know I have to fill a 1.5" cavity, so I need 2 sheets per section instead of 1. That means 8 sheets per side for the 16' box section. I did not buy any for the over-cab area yet, waiting to see how that looks once I get to it.

I will use aluminum foil tape at every seam. And where needed, probably also squirt a bit of spray foam. Each layer will be adhered with the 3M hi-strength 90 spray adhesive. then over the girts will go the original 1/4" plywood.

This load of insulation filled the back of the suburban. See attached picture. I could barely see over it, and mostly had to rely on the side view mirrors.

This evening between rain sessions, I got them all unloaded into the box truck. Hey, it's useful at last, being storage for its own supplies! I stacked them tight to the wall and braced them with a 2x4 and a tote, so hopefully any wind from overnight storms won't affect them.

I also picked up the wood putty and sandpaper I will need to finish the floor.

I am not looking forward to ripping down all those sheets of foam, but the table saw can handle it I am sure.

Jim

 

[baadpuppy]

Great build thread! You're doing all the right things.

I'm jealous 'cuz my '99 E450 only gets 10 miles per gallon.

A box truck build will be 'easier' because, well, no curves to speak of. Also, no windows to leak, or remove. I've seen a number of youtube videos of these built out, the possibilities are quite endless.

Do you envision this build to be somewhat 'stealth'?

10 mpg still beats every bus I have had (4 total, 2 RE diesels, one gasser manual transmission traditional style governed to 55, and one diesel traditional style governed to 55).

Many things about the box truck are easier. Getting the interior wall surfaces off. the limited amount of curvature. the ability to have right angles. less heavy steel to deal with. decent ceiling height to start with! No seats to remove.

It isn't all perfect though. being a sealed box scares me, as I am a bit paranoid about a fire and being trapped. I am putting a decent door in the passenger wall, and another in the rear wall where the rollup door used to be. One way or another, I do plan to be able to escape!

I scared up the original purchase information the other day, and had forgotten that it had new injectors and a new (used rebuilt) turbo installed shortly before I bought it, so those are some maintenance issues I will not have to deal with for a while.

As for stealth, that was my original intent. However, I have decided that is not as important to me as safety is. My underneath space is nice, but not infinite. I will probably have my propane tanks mounted on the rear wall and ledge for example, rather than hiding them in a compartment. I did buy a rather nice box for the house batteries which will be drivers side far forward underneath. My doors have 4 small windows near the top to let in a little light. The mini split outdoor unit will be on the back wall most likely.

I plan to install a roof rack, with 3/4" CDX plywood decking, with about 3-6" of clearance between that and the regular roof. This will be where the solar panels are mounted, and will also shade the regular roof, reducing the solar heating load inside. Speaking of those drawbacks earlier, a box truck is a big metal solar oven with no windows to open for a breeze, so anything I can do to keep that heat out is worth investigating. I do not intend for the roof rack platform to be a "deck" for hanging out on. I want to put as much solar up there as I can reasonably fit. I am pretty sure this solar platform will be very anti-stealth. I also plan to create an air dam / ramp at the front to not have it trying to lift off while driving.

There are plenty of industrial places I feel I can safely park overnight. Since I do plan to have cameras all over it, even if something happens, I should have evidence if police need to be involved.

Thank you for your words of encouragement,
Jim

 

[baadpuppy]

Man, I've considered getting a box truck more times than I can count. There's a 4x4 Fuso in seemingly great shape about 15 minutes from me that the owners have been trying to sell for way too long. There's just no real market for vehicles converted into alternative dwellings in my area, so my guess is they haven't found the right business that needs a box truck.

I would love to have the ability to do something with a 4x4 or a unimog, pretty much anything that is serious about overlanding. Alas, my skills and budget just don't lend itself to that.

Even this truck is an exercise in compromises. But, it was in my budget range.

Ironically, I lived in a 28' travel trailer for about 10 months in 2004/2005, through a super harsh summer and winter, and all I could think about was getting an apartment and moving somewhere closer to work. Now, I just want to live in a van down by the river. Funny how much perspective can change over time. If I had just found a 12 month RV lot for that travel trailer, I could have saved a ton of money and been far better off in life. Instead, I was ashamed of living in a camper. Ah well, they say wisdom comes with age, and I have sure been waiting a long time to get some of that there wisdom. LOL

The thread with the VW TDI engine in a unimog? (military vehicle) with a short bus body on the rear has had my attention since I first ran across it. Now there is a project to inspire people.

Perhaps if you get the 4x4 Fuso, you could be converting it into your own overland adventure shack.

If I can do it, anyone can. :biggrin:

Jim