MaxxForce DT (2009) Engine guidance and Scanguage 3 metrics to monitor

[AllisonWanderland]

yeah you can build our own dash for sure.. its somewhat limited in te parameters it can capture but does the most used ones very well.. I have a couple of them... i wish they were a little deeper into the transmission data but you can request parameters for the to add and see if they will do it.

If I can get current gear and transmission temp, I think that may suffice? I honestly don't know what on the trans could be useful to monitor either.

 

[cadillackid]

If I can get current gear and transmission temp, I think that may suffice? I honestly don't know what on the trans could be useful to monitor either.

ill connect mine and see if it gives me current gear.. I need to get that bus out for a drive anyway. i know transmission and engine temps are on it as well as oil temp..



current gear is on the J1939 data link just not surew if the bluefire displays it

 

[AllisonWanderland]

ill connect mine and see if it gives me current gear.. I need to get that bus out for a drive anyway. i know transmission and engine temps are on it as well as oil temp..



current gear is on the J1939 data link just not surew if the bluefire displays it

Current Gear does work. I just spent a solid couple of hours setting custom guages with ranges specifically to my equipment. Loving this! thankyou for the push to get it.

 

[Omnibot2000]

And just like that, the pre 2010 emissions MaxxforceDT looks desirable :-|.

Wow, glad I only have a DPF and EGR to worry about for the most part.

Yes, while EGR I really don't mind a whole lot the DPF can be a pain and sucks.

It's the SCR and it's NOX sensors with pump and doser that are truely a pile of garbage.

EGR's do plug up, if they are not cracked and just plugged, I have cleaned them. EGR valves do fail but again, pull the valve and clean them makes a difference. If you can see light on the backside of the seat then it needs cleaning.

DPF's do need occasional cleaning outside forced regens. Every 5000hrs we are "supposed to" remove and send out for cleaning, we only clean when the Regen cycles become to frequent and loaded with ash or we have to drop the whole emission box for exhaust leaks or something else unrelated.

It's those stupid NOX sensors and NOX system that shuts down trucks. Just replaced a Cummins doser valve last week for $1300 as it failed. Warned me it was going to speed limit in xxx amount of kms....see dealer. When spending money like that your always testing the wiring and circuits. Gone the days of $50-$75 sensors where it was cheaper to stab in a part then to pull schematics and remove components to pin out wiring. And if you were wrong, well you now have a good test sensor. Now if your wrong you feel pretty stupid.

That Cummins engine required a $2000 EGR valve, $350 DPF deferential sensor, $1300 SCR doser valve plus 9 hrs of diagnosing, replacing parts and road testing. Truck started out with 21 engine codes. $5000 was just spent on it in July where they fixed the symptoms(plugged DPF and EGR), not the cause. Came back in the shop down again I'm certain it will be good now.

 

[Omnibot2000]

Sure, I get the picture.

However. There would be plenty of new companies that could spawn without all of the baggage willing to mass produce Old diesel engines again, and with the restrictions removed, there would be no problem to throw a crate diesel into it. Or even reverse engineer in shops to remove the restrictions added to the companies with the baggage investments without getting their hands swatted.

A lot of good could come from it, and we should still strive for this future.

I don't see new companies forming to reverse engineer engines. Alot of these companies hold patents on these engines and these global companies like Detroit, Mercedes, CAT, Cummins, Iveco or whoever else will destroy them. Cat for example purchased Perkins engines. Perkins was big. Perkins is still around, CAT could have killed it off. That is the problem with big global companies, I worked for one. We had some local players that came in to compete with us. My company said they have not see there sales drop even if though they were being undercut. They also said if they saw there sales drop they would either buy them out and kill the company or undercut there own sales taking a loss to bankrupt the new smaller start ups and then jack there prices back up. The ocean is truely full of big sharks today. That's big business now. That's were regulation is important, consumer is not winning.

I do agree however the emissions have gone to far with the new regulations coming out.

One can argue the current regulation is to much but if we sat in the current regulation, generally companies improve there product to make it more robust.

When fuel injection first came out people cursed it, even dodge recalled there fuel injected V-8 engines to convert back to carburetor back in the day. But time and technology improved

Current/today's diesel engines for the most part burns cleaner then gas engines emission intact. Why go more? Even Ford bragged about the junky 6.4 powerstroke back in the day, while the diesel is running in downtown New York during rush hour, the air coming out of the tail pipe is cleaner then air going in.

The spill over is GPF's or gasoline particulate filters. The talk is it may be on its way here. Talking to a co-worker about this a couple weeks ago, GPF's are already being used in other countries.

Me personally, there should be at least a pause before new regulations come out

 

[nikitis]

Yeah I get it. But I'm to a point that I've been thinking about building my next car from scratch if need be. I can make it my own, and put only what I want in it. Nothing legally preventing me from doing so except I only have to meet a certain road worthy requirements like lights.

I think I have the knowledge enough to be able to do it. I can't stand the direction even gas cars are going with the computers that you aren't the Administrator of, and they tell you what to do. I tell the car what to do, not the other way around. I'm the master of the vehicle. Seat belt chimes. I disabled them in my last 3 cars. I don't like them chiming at me telling me to put my seat belt on. I know to put it on, i'm not stupid. I don't need it beeping in my ear telling me so. I only want the sensors on my car that I need, and that's it. Nothing more.

And if I decided it was simple enough, I could start a car company and sell them. And I wouldn't sell out just because I hate the industry so much at ANY cost. It wouldn't even be about money for me. It would be about change.

 

[cadillackid]

Yeah I get it. But I'm to a point that I've been thinking about building my next car from scratch if need be. I can make it my own, and put only what I want in it. Nothing legally preventing me from doing so except I only have to meet a certain road worthy requirements like lights.

I think I have the knowledge enough to be able to do it. I can't stand the direction even gas cars are going with the computers that you aren't the Administrator of, and they tell you what to do. I tell the car what to do, not the other way around. I'm the master of the vehicle. Seat belt chimes. I disabled them in my last 3 cars. I don't like them chiming at me telling me to put my seat belt on. I know to put it on, i'm not stupid. I don't need it beeping in my ear telling me so. I only want the sensors on my car that I need, and that's it. Nothing more.

And if I decided it was simple enough, I could start a car company and sell them. And I wouldn't sell out just because I hate the industry so much at ANY cost. It wouldn't even be about money for me. It would be about change.

the chimes and displays and beeps arent there because the car company uses them as a marketing tool.. they market them as features so people will buy them as such and be willing to pay for them, but they are government regulations.. rear seat reminders after dumb parents somehow forgot their kids in the car... seatbelt reminders because seatbelt laws werent enough.. people still didnt use them... automatic braking because people play on their phones and dont watch the traffic.. yes speed limters are coming because people drive way too fast for the conditions while playing on the phone and forgetting their kids are in the backseat..


lots of people would buy a car without all that stuff but youd never get off the ground.. you cant even build a car with a radio and no screen these days because rearview cameras are a government thing. because people apparently cant reverse anymore either.. to that credit i guess its because our cars look like bubbles and have seats you cant see around.. years ago even bucket seats were lower back and windows werent tinted so you could see easier to reverse...



other features are on cars because it became more cost effective to make a feature standard once a certain percentage of cars were sold with it vs without.. ie A/C.. only a few would buy a car without A/C, making it more expensive to have 2 sets of controls, 2 line items on the assembly line.. such that it became cheaper to give A/C to everyone.. power windows another... automatic transmission in the US..



if you built a car with only the government mandated items could you sell enough single cab manual window manual transmission trucks (using as an example because i hear "we want the old base ranger of the 90s back" chatter).. or is it simply a Niche? even Jeep wrangler which last I knew still offered manual windows manual transmission (A/C is standard now).. they dont sell many..

 

[Omnibot2000]

. you cant even build a car with a radio and no screen these days because rearview cameras are a government thing. because people apparently cant reverse anymore either.. to that credit i guess its because our cars look like bubbles and have seats you cant see around.. years ago even bucket seats were lower back and windows werent tinted so you could see easier to reverse...




..

You got that right. The design sucks now which is almost forcing the hand to come up with the cash to purchase these options. I purchased a 2nd gen fusion 5-6 weeks ago with no backup camera or back up aids(those sensors in the back bumper that relays a beeping into the car). This car is so stupid looking out the back window it's damn near impossible to back up. Garbage visibility.

Before this Fusion I drove the 1st gen Fusion for the past 10 years before the deer decided to join me in the car. Even that car was a pain to back up without the sensors because of visibility but I learned to use the back up aid.

To top it off, the cars always seem to get larger as they move from generation to generation. Sitting in this new to me car feels like a land yacht and it's not a full size car.

I really miss my old car. I beat on that car and it kept asking for more. 10 years of problem free miles.

 

[Omnibot2000]

Yeah I get it. But I'm to a point that I've been thinking about building my next car from scratch if need be. I can make it my own, and put only what I want in it. Nothing legally preventing me from doing so except I only have to meet a certain road worthy requirements like lights.

I think I have the knowledge enough to be able to do it. I can't stand the direction even gas cars are going with the computers that you aren't the Administrator of, and they tell you what to do. I tell the car what to do, not the other way around. I'm the master of the vehicle. Seat belt chimes. I disabled them in my last 3 cars. I don't like them chiming at me telling me to put my seat belt on. I know to put it on, i'm not stupid. I don't need it beeping in my ear telling me so. I only want the sensors on my car that I need, and that's it. Nothing more.

And if I decided it was simple enough, I could start a car company and sell them. And I wouldn't sell out just because I hate the industry so much at ANY cost. It wouldn't even be about money for me. It would be about change.

I found myself turning off some features and adjust others in the systems of my Ford. Forscan is a free app, adapter is like $35 depending where you buy it

My biggest issue is the engineers putting everything on the communication line between all the modules. You can have a backup camera that takes down the whole network and create a no start situation leaving you stranded.

What's worse is tech's in the industry can't comprehend the wiring systems in today's cars. The longer I do this, the more I see kids fail the schooling trying to enter the trade. I'm not the best at it but can work my way through the electrical but I also started the trade in 98 when we didn't have all this crap. I wasn't born into it. If I work on just one type of truck we can all become wizards of said truck but I'm currently exposed to Multiple types of units, Ford, Chevy, dodge, Freightliner, Western Star, International, PACCAR, Cat, Case, Kubota, bobcat, Trackless.......that scratches the surface. Point is we are a fleet shop, we work on everything and we still send stuff to the dealer because we don't have the proper information to repair. We still have to send stuff back to the dealer because they didn't get it right the first time.

 

[Omnibot2000]

..

other features are on cars because it became more cost effective to make a feature standard once a certain percentage of cars were sold with it vs without.. ie A/C.. only a few would buy a car without A/C, making it more expensive to have 2 sets of controls, 2 line items on the assembly line.. such that it became cheaper to give A/C to everyone.. power windows another... automatic transmission in the US..


..

Last point, I don't think it was cheaper, I just think it was too inconvenient to build a car without the A/C. If 93% of the building of cars was being optioned with A/C, then it was too cumbersome to build a car without. Now the company just says "here is a standard feature of air conditioning" but mark the price up accordingly. We the consumer are still paying for it.......by force now.

While alot of safety features are now mandated....like TPMS systems either direct or indirect. Alot of standard features was decided for us because it's just easier to roll down the assembly line. We all pay for it in the end with the prices of vehicles inflating more then everything else over the years pre pandemic.

 

[nikitis]

Which is why I won't pay for them anymore. I will build my own car next. I could build one cheaper today, and have it the way I want it. I don't want over half the "Features" they call features they are required to install.

I'll build it and register it as experimental and be done with it. A/C was the only standard Item I'm fine with paying for. I'll add my own stereo with a screen, Linux box RPI5 (better software and control of the screen than Android Auto, and Air Play). Bluetooth, Chromecast, etc. I already do this to the cars I buy so i end up buying a piece of junk infotainment system that looks and feels like it was made 10+ years ago, and throwing it away, and then buying a proper custom system of my own making and installing it myself. (I have this setup in my camaro, and adding it to my Bus currently.) I can view this forum in my own Camaro screen if I wish it's that advanced, and touch screen active.

I'm not limited by the limited screens either of the automotive services provide.

 

[cadillackid]

Which is why I won't pay for them anymore. I will build my own car next. I could build one cheaper today, and have it the way I want it. I don't want over half the "Features" they call features they are required to install.

I'll build it and register it as experimental and be done with it. A/C was the only standard Item I'm fine with paying for. I'll add my own stereo with a screen, Linux box RPI5 (better software and control of the screen than Android Auto, and Air Play). Bluetooth, Chromecast, etc. I already do this to the cars I buy so i end up buying a piece of junk infotainment system that looks and feels like it was made 10+ years ago, and throwing it away, and then buying a proper custom system of my own making and installing it myself. (I have this setup in my camaro, and adding it to my Bus currently.) I can view this forum in my own Camaro screen if I wish it's that advanced, and touch screen active.

I'm not limited by the limited screens either of the automotive services provide.

thats the problem with infortainment in cars is it quickly becomes obsolete. a friend of mine who has a 2017 malibu premiere just like the one i had when it was new... it flat out wont work with his new iphone 16 pro correctly.. only 7 years old and its pretty much useless except for some of its built in apps.. the carplay doenst work right anymore.. the android auto does still work but he doesnt want an adroid phone.. chevy doesnt care bwcause they have a newer version of myLink that came out in 2019 then in 2024 a newer version yet.. they dont care about the 2017 version...



Im a techie geek i love all that stuff but it all should be optional.. id be one who buys it because i like it, but why should everyone be forced t oget it? I lease my cars so the infotainment works long enough till my lease expires then i get the latest again...



the newer cars are too integrated to even easily replace it... on my Ram, the climate control display and many vehicle settings are handled via the infotainment screen... try to roll my own with android and id lose the ability to see my climate settings or even enable my heated seats, wheel , etc. more and more the CAN is getting encrypted so i ight not even be able to talk to the CAN and make all of it work ..


ive done the android head units in older cars and loved them.. as i hadthe full version of android so i could do everything from navi to dashcam to audio, but also could pull up my home automation and say turn on my home heat, lights, etc before leaving to head home.. wrote my own apps to track the car etc.. was really nice.. but manufacturers are making it tougher to take their stuff out and replace it..



GM has even decided to drop apple carplay and android auto, further requiring you to buy their subscription navi, etc rather than attach your phone.. so now people are putting in distracting phone mounts that block the view on the windshield, just ike the old garmin devices did.. counter intuitive..

 

[nikitis]

the newer cars are too integrated to even easily replace it... on my Ram, the climate control display and many vehicle settings are handled via the infotainment screen... try to roll my own with android and id lose the ability to see my climate settings or even enable my heated seats, wheel , etc. more and more the CAN is getting encrypted so i ight not even be able to talk to the CAN and make all of it work ..

This is why I plan to just build my next car from scratch. You have to rip it ALL out. Why pay full exorbitant pricing of a car where you won't use any of it? It's a waste of money. I bet you there is indeed a market for dumb cars again and adding stuff without government mandated electronics like OnStar which can be used to disable your vehicle. I'll just grab a chassis, weld up a frame, wire up a fuse panel for lights and ignition, throw in a non electronic engine, manual shifter. Add my own Linux computer no restricted. UsB-C for charging and get on down the road

With the price of cars today. And repairing them, imagine selling a car for $18,000 today that just has what I mentioned above. Just thinking about it makes me say I'd buy one.

 

[cadillackid]

seems dumb to build a car from scratch///. just start with an older car and build it up..



there are plenty of older casrs out there that dont trigger the ranks of classic car enthusiasts but are simple enough to start with as a base where you can build in your own desired amount or lack thereof electronics.. the big one being when most items on a car even power windows and locks were just a switch, a hot, a fuse and a ground.. not going through an ECM controlled power management module..



even the likes of Multiplex.. like multifunction turn signal stalks and steering wheel switches were simple enough to follow.. every combination of buttons produced a different voltage return from a 5 volt VCC supply.. something you could easily handle with your own pi or arduino... yes electronic. but cheap and easy to service yourself..



regular power brakes were common through 2008 or 2009... buddy of mine has a 2008 impala that doesnt even have an ABS.. just standard brakes.. regular hydraulic power steerig was common till at least 2010.. some cars had begun to switch to electric computer controlled but many didnt till much later..



electronic automatic transmissions were commonplace from the early 90s on but were really easy to control with arduino, basic stamp, etc.. many of the common units still have 3rd party controllers available..

 

[PorchDog]

I have a 1995 Dodge van, no BCM, but does have a PCM/ECM, or whatever. Not OBD. I bought a spare ECM off eBay several years back and stuck it in the shop for future me. All the PCM does is control the alternator and the fuel injection. It is a cargo van with side and rear door windows, no interior.

I love the thing-- but my wife refuses to go anywhere in it.--- Says it looks like we are pedophiles... I have mag wheels, white letter tires, and a "Not Another Sprinter" sticker on the back. 318 with a 727-- multi port fuel injection-- and the thing will fly.

Everything works-- the AC will freeze you out-- original condenser and evaporator.

I even ordered a kit off eBay and retrofitted power windows!

I can keep this running. Mid to late 90's had good powertrains, and not so much electronic goop.

 

[cadillackid]

back when dodge vans were built well!.. 97 was the last year for those.. in 98 they went with all kinds of electronics in the re-desgn.. and consequently lots of issues too... I didnt realize they ran the 727 in those... the mid 90s dodge we had in the HVAC company had overdrive.. it wasnt a 47RE that came later.. maybe a 46R or something.. was essentially a 727 with an overdrive unit on the back of it and a longer output shaft..

 

[PorchDog]

The transmission surprised me too-- not exactly in a good way. I thought it would at least have a lock up convertor, but it does not-- only one little three wire (or four?) connector going to the transmission.

So-- totally manual controls, but a little "hair lipped" at highway speeds.

 

[cadillackid]

The transmission surprised me too-- not exactly in a good way. I thought it would at least have a lock up convertor, but it does not-- only one little three wire (or four?) connector going to the transmission.

So-- totally manual controls, but a little "hair lipped" at highway speeds.

727 is about as easy as it gets to build on a bench in your garage though.. the later versions with overdrive you had to have a press and be really careful as there was a massive spring in the overdrive clutch drum..held back by a snap ring. always seemed like it was on the order of a brake can spring..