Might Be Taking the Plunge

[phager76]

Hey all,

Our family is going to be looking at getting ourselves a retired school bus tomorrow, so I figured I'd introduce myself, and get some feedback on the bus.

So, we're coming into a modest amount of money, and have decided that we're going to do a cross country road trip this summer, so the kids can see the west side of the US. We've done a lot of camping in our old pop-up that we pulled with our Excursion, put the Ex died, and the pop-up is far to small for our family. So the plan was either a full size van or SUV and a toy hauler, so we could fit the three kids and bring a golf cart along.

Researching over the last 6 months, it became clear we would be pushing our weight limits with a toy hauler on anything but a 3500 van or Expedition. That led me to the van based busses, as well as shorter full size busses.

The goal for us is the ultimate Family Tow Vehicle. Since we'll be hauling the camper, we don't need living space (necessarily). I more envisioning the most unique conversion van ever, complete with comfy seats, TV, and maybe some drop down bunks in the back, in case the kids want to sleep away from the old fogeies!

So, I ran across an 03 International short bus with the T444E on FB Marketplace. I'm not sure the exact length, but it looks like 6 rows of seats/6 windows per side. No handicap lift. It has 186k miles, with only a small amount of rust in one rear wheel well. I ran the vin in OnCommand, and the bad news is that it looks like it has the AT-545 (at least that's the only transmission listed). I'll try to attach some pics here. But I'd love any feedback on this platform, the trans has me worried, but the bus looks in really good shape, so maybe it'll be fine? Lol

Keep in mind, this is in PA, so the rust looks to be predominantly surface level on the under floor and frame rails. Asking price is 3700

Thanks for any feedback!

 

[desrtdog]

From pics 5,6, and 9, I’m not sure I’d classify the rust as “surface level”, but doesn’t appear to be any gaping holes in any of the structural members. The bigger issue I’d have is the transmission - if it’s a 545, then you are going to be limited on what you can get for highway speed (believe those do not have an overdrive) as well as performance in the mountains….I would look for something with a 2500 or 3000 series.

Plenty of others here who can give more details on both rust and tranny’s…

 

[nikitis]

On a scale of 0-10 on rust with 10 being don't buy due to rust, and 0 being buy due to lack of rust.

I give it a 6-7.

Structurally it will likely be sound but you're gonna have to do a lot of wire brushing, and sanding and oil treatment of that metal to substantially slow that rust process down long enough to get enjoyment out of a build to do so. Also suspension items like u-bolts for the leaf springs may need replacing right away to ensure safety of your suspension. You can clean up items like leaf spring shields but the u-bolts themselves should always be replaced.

If you take the time to go under there you can save this bus, but if nobody does it soon it won't be saveable without tremendous tearing apart.

 

[ewo1]

AT-545....me personally, I would walk away.
also, that bus has leaf springs in the rear. Bumpy ride...Air ride is so much nicer.
I also did not see and A/C compressor on the engine.

The west side of the country has lots of hills and pulling a toad with an AT545 is not desirable. Can be done but not desirable.


You mention that you will pulling your camper with the bus? Well then forget about the golf cart.

You might first try drawing out a floorplan of how you perceive setting up the bus for your traveling comfort.
Thoughts on paper are usually much clearer than thoughts in the brain.
My brain spends to much time thinking about alot of useless things but when I write it down, it all comes together for me.

 

[phager76]

I really appreciate the feedback! The transmission is what has me most concerned since we're heading into the Rockies and beyond. The rust is less concerning, since I have a welder, although I have zero experience with it, lol. But we all got to learn some time! I am pretty handy, I used to be an ASE master tech, but heavy diesels are new territory.

I'm curious about the comments about the golf cart. We're looking at bumper pull toy haulers (we haven't purchased the trailer yet), with a GVWR under 10k, and putting the cart inside the toy hauler. Are you saying that these full size platforms can't pull a 10k load. That surprises me, since my old Excursion was rated for 9500.

As for layout, the goal is to put 4 conversion van captains chairs, as well as a folding bench. Assuming there's enough space behind that, I want to fab up a couple of bunks that will fold against the sides of the bus that can flip down if the kids want to sleep in the bus instead of the camper. I'd think this should serve to drop the weight and increase the payload capacity. But, to be honest, this is all new territory for me.

We're going to be heading out to look at it in about an hour. I'm bringing the pretrip checklist to be safe. If it ends up being trash, no biggie, I'll just keep on looking!

 

[desrtdog]

Yeah… I think the issue is less about whether the bus can handle the tow, than it is about “at what cost” one the drive train. Given the choice, that 545 is not the best transmission even without any additional loads. The last thing you want is to be towing some load over the Rockies and have your transmission overheating or slipping. There is plenty of commentary on this forum about the downsides of the 545 vs alternatives, so would recommend that you at least inform yourself before making a commitment….Good luck with the hunt…

 

[Dbacks2k4]

I'm curious about the comments about the golf cart. We're looking at bumper pull toy haulers (we haven't purchased the trailer yet), with a GVWR under 10k, and putting the cart inside the toy hauler. Are you saying that these full size platforms can't pull a 10k load. That surprises me, since my old Excursion was rated for 9500.

Depends on the bus and what all you build inside of it, but 10k is a lot. Most of these buses are going to have a GVWR between 26-32k lbs. Most of mine crossed the scale empty of passengers and just with a full tank of diesel at around 20,000 lbs. These were cheap-ish party buses, and built out with some LVP flooring and two rows of plywood bench seating and a stereo, no water tanks, appliances, etc.

 

[phager76]

Well, just got back from looking at it overall, the bus was in pretty good shape. There were a few thin areas in the floors when looking underneath, but structurally was good. The front tires were date coded 2014 and I couldn't find the DOT #s on the rear, so I'd assume the same.

The test drive was what sealed it. There was a steep (for PA) hill next to their shop, and that poor thing was screaming with just me and the seller in it. Up until then, I was still leaning towards it if I could get it under 2k, but there's no way that trans would make it to the west coast and back. It's not that it was slipping, but there's no way it would have been happy for very long.

It was still very informative, that size bus will work well for our uses. We really want to keep things as small as possible, so we can use the bus to get around when we're set up, and anything much bigger would start to be a handful.

Oh well, the search continues, I guess. At least I'm confident on the size we need now, and I have a better idea of what to look out for.

Thanks again for all the input!

 

[Timeline]

Glad you walked away, nice size bus though. My bus has 164k miles and it's 2500 series trans has already been rebuilt. This thing shifts the 5 gears really nice it's great, but it's not as heavy duty and may not have the longevity of the 3000 series 6 speeds.

 

[nikitis]

The buses can pull 10k no problem. How fast however is a different story. The AT545 can pull a house off of its foundation but speed is not its game. Torque is.

The speed is bad with that transmission you won’t enjoy it and will want to replace it down the road and will cost.

 

[phager76]

So, thoughts on this bus? Looks like it has the DT466E with the Allison 2000. Also has air ride, and is located in Georgia (although it looks to be close to the coast).

I think if I could get it under 3k it could be a good starting point.

 

[Dbacks2k4]

So, thoughts on this bus? Looks like it has the DT466E with the Allison 2000. Also has air ride, and is located in Georgia (although it looks to be close to the coast).

I think if I could get it under 3k it could be a good starting point.

Good drive train, I had one just like it in my fleet. GVWR is 29800, about same as mine. Georgia buses are usually rust free but too bad they don't have more pictures.

A/C is nice if it works, but "AC may need charging" is usually code for refrigerant leak

EDIT: The "runs and drives with a boost" description is a little concerning. If battery boost, they already said it needs new batteries, not a big deal. If they mean a shot of ether, could be a variety of issues causing that... some rather expensive to fix.

 

[phager76]

Dang, I shouldn't have posted the link, there was a flurry of bidding overnight! It looks like someone asked about that previously, and the seller responded that it's just the batteries needing jumped.

It sure looks like a good option. I'll be keeping an eye on it. The wife is a little hesitant because it's all the way in GA. She really looked uncomfortable when I said "well, if we win it, I'll fly to Jax and then drive it home." Hey, you only live once, right? I'm inclined to think it'll go over my max anyway, but I'll throw in a bid closer to auction close, no point driving the price up yet.

 

[nikitis]

Tell your wife the trip is part of the fun of a bus purchase and then ask her where her sense of adventure is.

The drive train seems good. That's about as good as you can really get from auctions. If there's real mechanical issues they may have to be dealt with later but there's no real way to tell from auctions if those are the cases. It's a risk we all take when we get our buses. Most buses will require some work after purchase as there's a reason they are selling them so it's best to just plan for a little repair work. If the bare bones are good however it's usually a good choice.

 

[phager76]

I figured I should post a little update. I've decided to pass on the International I posted above. I don't know why, but I'm just getting some bad vibes. Maybe it's the terse answers by the seller, between the "we don't share maintenance records" and the non answers to the last two questions.

I've been talking to someone with the school districts in NC this week, and found a couple of possibilities. So I booked a flight for Thursday and hopefully be bringing it home.

I'm sure I'll get some hate, but the bus in question is an 06 FS-65 42 passenger lift bus. It has the MBE-906 with an Allison 2000. The bus has full maintenance records, and was pulled from service in July, and is started every month.

The lady I talked to has said the engines have been reliable for them, but did admit some parts are difficult to find. She's also been very forthcoming with issues with the other busses.

I'm sort of looking at it this way. Any bus I'm going to get is going to be trashed if I have any kind of catastrophic failure. I'm not going to replace a trans or engine on a sub 4000 bus. I'd replace the dang thing. It's a safer bet to just buy something that has a strong maintenance history. I'm also probably not going to put more than 10k miles a year on the bus. If I can 50-100k miles out of it, that's a pretty solid ROI.

We'll see what happens this week! Here's a pic of the bus

 

[nikitis]

If you are anywhere near the charlotte area I’d be happy to look it over for you if you wanna stop by. Let me know and I’ll pm you my address. I’m like 30 mins from there.

 

[phager76]

If you are anywhere near the charlotte area I’d be happy to look it over for you if you wanna stop by. Let me know and I’ll pm you my address. I’m like 30 mins from there.

Thanks, Nikitis! I'm picking up the bus in Asheboro, which looks to be about an hour and half from Charlotte, so I'll definitely take you up on that! It'll be great to get another set of eyes on it.

Side note: I just found out that the Thomas plant is in High Point, which is kinda sorta on the way home, so I'll have to try and get a picture of the bus in front of the factory. Seems fitting before taking her out of NC!

 

[phager76]

Welp, I should be asleep already, but I'm sitting here slightly freaking out about flying to NC at 5:43 am tomorrow. It's just a bit insane that I'm just hopping a plane and driving a bus home, sight unseen. Rofl

I think I got what I need. Got insurance for the bus, I have the checks, I'm all packed, and I have more than enough funds if an emergency happens. I've also pre scouted the area and there's both a harbor freight and advance nearby.

I'm sure everything will be fine. And I'm picking up my youngest from Milton Hershey School on Friday for a weekend visit, and she has no idea I'm buying a bus tomorrow. So that will be a fun event for her, lol

 

[phager76]

Sitting on the plane, waiting to depart Pittsburgh. I'm exhausted, but super excited! Next stop, DC, and then on to Greensboro.

 

[BamaBus]

Same Bus 97 ?