Need to know the GAWR for front and rear tires on an 8 - 10 window 3Box bus. 94-97

[nikitis]

Anyone who has an 8 to 10 window Thomas bus from the year 94-97, can you look at your info plate in your bus and tell me your GAWR for the front and rear tires.

I have a guy at Thomas willing to print my bus an info plate as mine was faded away and he needs those values.

Thanks in advance.

 

[s2mikon]

How does your state fee registration? Gross weight from the plate or unladen weight. Wink wink nudge nudge.

 

[nikitis]

My state (SC) requires any total weight you want to register it for. You say I want 64,000 lbs, you pay $10 more every 10k lbs. They start your value with what's in your title but there's no limit i could request.

I still need the GAWR values for the front and rear axles So I can get a new info plate printed.

 

[s2mikon]

Have you checked with Navistar for a line set ticket? I think that different axles were available at time of mfg and that may be the most accurate. I remember a long time ago when I worked in a large truck repair place doing alignments that some front axles were marked with a tag and it would tell me if I had 14k or a 20k front axle.

 

[nikitis]

Yes they don't have the records.

My best guess based off of a similar bus in similar years will be all I need to go on.

The axles are gonna be the same likely for school buses of the same era and size.

 

[Omnibot2000]

You should be looking for a tag on the axles but is likely long gone.

You did the kingpins on your front axle not long ago. Can you not go back and see what you purchased? The part number of those parts could narrow your axle ranges down to a couple if not one.

Here is the break down of axle weights. Pretty easy.

The rear Diff is likely N series axle.

 

[nikitis]

The plates I found, they were caked under grease, and paint.

Here's the images:

94 is the year. Not sure what the rest are.

 

[fo4imtippin]

My bus is tagged as 30k. 21k rear and 14.6k front. They did have front springs that were limited to 10k. Most of the conventional buses were a bit lighter. I would set it to 26,000 and leave it there. You arent subject to weigh stations to ever be "overweight" and vehicles tagged higher can be treated as commercial.

 

[nikitis]

Yeah I understand all of that. The whole point of this for me is to get this tag remade by Thomas:

My tag went invisible. I want a new one and Thomas is going to re-print me one but they need to know the GAWR Front and Rear. We have the rest of the information.

This is a known issue. The ink used to print the values on these tags 30 years ago fades into nothing, and even with UV lighting to try to read the values, there's zero hint of the ink and we cannot make out what the values were.

I want this tag for my bus filled out, and I got someone at Thomas willing to re-print a modern tag for my 30 year old bus but need the info.

 

[ewo1]

for the GAWR rear, is there a data plate identifying the axle itself? then maybe you can reverse engineer the ratings on the rear axle?

 

[nikitis]

Post 7 above has the plates. Not sure how to interpret.

 

[s2mikon]

Why don't you just add up your tires and call it good. You don't need to be over that anyway. It'l be more accurate than using someone else's data plate.

 

[nikitis]

Why don't you just add up your tires and call it good. You don't need to be over that anyway. It'l be more accurate than using someone else's data plate.

So the guy at Thomas questioned my tires and thinks that they aren't the correct load on the tires and I should maybe change it but he's not sure because you should do it the other way, base your tire load rating based on the rated axle weight.

 

[ewo1]

Post 7 above has the plates. Not sure how to interpret.

You need to learn Spanglish..... lol..
Here is how to interpret the numbers...
It also might be helpful to call either International a well established (old school) driveline repair parts/shop for trucks, they might be more helpful.

Rear Axle
1668369c91 is a Navistar part number.

do you have a data plate for the front axle?

you can get the full manual pages, post #3 & #13, from this thread.

 

[ewo1]

Dr. google info...
take it for what it is worth... (not very accurate info)

The part number 1668369c91 does not correspond to a complete axle but is for an internal differential component for a Navistar truck. The part has been discontinued, but aftermarket versions are available.
Aftermarket information
An aftermarket equivalent is the PAI 497059 gear set, which is a replacement for the 1665369C91 Navistar part (a very similar, likely superseded or variant part number to 1668369C91).

https://s1partscenter.com/brands/international/rear-axle/diff/1693641c91?srsltid=AfmBOoqqZOz4e5DQgG6UzwB8eq1IT46th1feGUf0xrt-PMdZdarVGVFD

CROSS REFERENCES​

• MERITOR A12 3200M1
• MERITOR A12 3200M1
• MERITOR A12 3200M1833 914
• MERITOR A12 3200M1833 914
• MERITOR A123200M1833(9.14)
• MERITOR A123200M1833(9.14)
• MERITOR A123200M1833914
• MERITOR A123200M1833914

 

[ewo1]

I could be wrong but...it's a shot... maybe an early version of this axle..... ????

Your rear axle housing might be an early version of a Dana 175 series ????
Dana is now spicer.

Spicer 175 Series Single Drive Axles | Dana Commercial Vehicle

Discover the Spicer® 175 Series Single Drive Axles, engineered for 4x2, 6x2, and 8x2 configurations up to 28,660 lbs. GAWR. Featuring industry-leading gear ratios, AdvanTEK® technology, and lightweight durability for enhanced fuel efficiency and performance.

www.dana.com

OR - Wildly guessing here....

DANA-IHC N175 AXLE HOUSING REAR​

In any event you could at least ask the dealer if any of these two are yours.

 

[ewo1]

Trying to decipher the numbers under the Navistar part number
175AF108

Sorry, but a little more Dr. google stuff...
Again, use it only for guidance and questioning....

search term: Dana ihc 175 axle 1994 specifications

For a 1994 International truck, the Dana IHC 175 axle refers to the Dana Spicer N175 single rear axle, which has a 17,500-pound load capacity. However, the exact specifications can vary depending on the specific model and configuration of the International truck it was installed in. Key specifications like gear ratio and brakes must be identified from the vehicle itself.
Key specifications for a 1994 Dana IHC N175 axle

• Capacity: The "175" in the model name indicates a nominal load-carrying capacity of 17,500 pounds.
• Manufacturer: The axle was produced by a partnership between Dana (Spicer) and International Harvester (IHC).
• Spline count: The axle shaft features a 36-spline count.
• Gear ratio: The N175 axle was available with a variety of gear ratios, which are specific to the vehicle's original order. For instance, a 1994 axle could have a 3.54 ratio, while a 1993 model could have a 4.44 ratio.
• Brakes: The type of brake system (e.g., hydraulic disc) is specific to the vehicle's build.
• Wheel type: The lug bolt pattern is typically a 10-bolt "Budd" or stud-type wheel.

 

[PorchDog]

My 1996 BlueBird 6 window bus has an 8,000 Lb front axle, and a 17,500 pound rear axle. That makes it a 25,500 total--- and the way I look at it-- if you can't figure it out-- no one else can either.

25,500 is advantageous because it is in non CDL territory-- and if you happen to have hydraulic brakes-- that's another feather in your non CDL hat... my $0.03. (2 cents adjusted for inflation...)

 

[nikitis]

ok, I think the 8 and 6 window were similar. I'm guessing since mine is an 8k front like yours, 17,500 is probably my rear as well.

Thanks for the info @PorchDog

 

[nikitis]

Thanks all for the information, and guesses. Thomas was able to find some info from the data plate number on the rear axle. It's called the build number.

I have a new 2025 Thomas Built Bus Data sticker now that is legal. and it states it conforms to 09-94 which is when the bus was actually made.

So my bus is now officially and legally a 1994 bus instead of a 1995 which it was sold as. Kind of awesome IMO.

This whole time I've been conflicted with comments on this forum when I refer to my 1995 bus made in 1994. Now it shows it on the new data plate where the old one showed 1995.

Also cool about this is they found the BODY ID which I didn't have before.

But now this sticker matches this one:

So that's the end of this thread. I got the answers and data plate made. Thanks all for contributing.