New to me: 2018 Lion Electric C School Bus

[Dusbriver]

Hi all!


Unexpectedly, I am the new owner of a 2018 Lion Electric C School Bus! Woohoo! I'm in the process of learning all I can about her. Also looking for suggests on online EV communities that might be useful? Also hoping to find folks who have some experience with Medium/Heavy Duty EVs!


For those interested:
I found her on GovDeals and she's currently in Sacramento, CA. Built in Quebec, Canada in 2017. She has four (out of a possible five) battery packs for a total 105kWh capacity and a real-world range of about 70 miles (yeah, I know). Recharging via a Level 2 19.2kW charger will take between 6-11 hours. Basically, she's fairly new with only 10,500 miles on the odometer. Apparently, I got the one (out of a dozen or so) that got the most use because it was the one with the least issues. They're getting rid of them because they need much more range due to the area the school district covers. These things were very expensive new so I had a hard time resisting, even though the real-world range isn't very much. I may be crazy. We shall see! lol



Looking forward to your suggestions, thoughts, and questions! Most of all, looking forward to joining this great community!!

 

[fo4imtippin]

Congrats on the bus! I cant say i have seen anyone in your boat on here. They are giving away half million dollar buses already? Looks like you paid less per KWH for the packs than if you got some of the cheapest lifepo4 batteries already out there.



I was expecting a Tesla looking screen on the dash. Aww darn!



Whats your plans for the bus? Are you able to tap into the battery system to run inverters or things? Or hook solar up to it so you can charge back your house usage of the battery?


Please include details on if you find any public chargers that it might fit in.

 

[Dusbriver]

Thanks! Yeah, I feel sort of like a pioneer which isn’t usually something you want to be! Like being a lab rat/beta-tester…lol

I would have also expected a manufacturer of a new technology to take the opportunity to modernize some things but I think the opposite is what sells with school busses. To comfort the buyer and ease transition, Lion stuck with mostly off-the-shelf parts so mechanics wouldn’t have a hard time adjusting. The thing has hydraulic brakes and standard TRW steering gear. I suppose that kind of thing is also good for the pocket book and DIYer too.

My plans are still wide open. I’d love to convert it, even with the low range, but it may have more value in another application. I’d like to figure out how long it would take to charge with a roof full of solar. But that won’t be cheap. Still, if I don’t plan on moving her, 105kWh is enough to be off-grid for a LOOONG time!

What do you mean about chargers?

 

[fo4imtippin]

What do you mean about chargers?

Like the charging network at an Ikea, etc. Just a big bus, nothing to see here... Haha. Curious if there' sany near you that would fit your bus or be practical to use..

 

[Meathead]

Very interesting. Yes, I think you are the first around here with an electric bus! Tell us more about the bus; size, voltage , etc. I would love to do the math on solar panels and discuss it here.

When I travel the country, I only drive 100-125 miles per day. If you could add to the current 70 mile range, you could have something. Of course I don’t have to hunt around for a charge port every night.

[emoji3522]Dave

 

[TheHubbardBus]

Yeah, pretty sure you are a pioneer here. Very cool! Welcome

There's a lot to be said for having the potential to "fill up your tank" by just sitting in a place you enjoy for however long it takes to make it happen. The 70-mile limit, however, is a bit limiting.

Might take the scenery a while to change when you're only moving an hour away each time you hit the road :biggrin:

 

[Dusbriver]

That’s a great question! I’ve been messing with the PlugShare app which lists chargers (esp. free ones), but I have yet to see how it works in practice. Some friends have warned me often the chargers can be occupied or malfunctioning. The bus uses a standard J1772 connector so finding a charger wont be that difficult but yeah, finding one where I will fit and can stay for 10 hours will be the holy grail!

 

[Rucker]

If you don't mind my asking, how much did you pay for it?

And incidentally I live in Sacramento.

 

[Dusbriver]

The bus is a hair under 40'. For all the tech specs, I'm waiting on Lion Electric Quebec to get back to me to confirm. The school mechanic had no hard info and I've seen conflicting data. I do know that there's an extra space for an additional battery pack but it may need a different inverter. But I will let you know!

Very interesting. Yes, I think you are the first around here with an electric bus! Tell us more about the bus; size, voltage , etc. I would love to do the math on solar panels and discuss it here.

When I travel the country, I only drive 100-125 miles per day. If you could add to the current 70 mile range, you could have something. Of course I don’t have to hunt around for a charge port every night.

[emoji3522]Dave

 

[Dusbriver]

Thank you! I could theoretically do ~70 miles in the morning, charge during the day and then do another ~70 before the end of the day? While that ain't great, it'll slow me down to experience a place more deeply, which is one of the points of skoolie life, yeah?

Yeah, pretty sure you are a pioneer here. Very cool! Welcome

There's a lot o be said for having the potential to "fill up your tank" by just sitting in a place you enjoy for however long it takes to make it happen. The 70-mile limit, however, is a bit limiting.

Might take the scenery a while to change when you're only moving an hour away each time you hit the road :biggrin:

 

[Dusbriver]

A few bucks under 24k, which is double what an earlier bus went for, so I probably overpaid because I always over pay. And maybe their guy was feeding me a line, but he said the other busses have had electrical issues, hence their lower miles. I dunno about you but for me, NOT having electrical issues and a fully working bus out of the gate is worth a lot!


BTW, had a good time in Sacramento! Really interesting town. Definitely looking forward to going back.

If you don't mind my asking, how much did you pay for it?

And incidentally I live in Sacramento.

 

[cadillackid]

That’s a great question! I’ve been messing with the PlugShare app which lists chargers (esp. free ones), but I have yet to see how it works in practice. Some friends have warned me often the chargers can be occupied or malfunctioning. The bus uses a standard J1772 connector so finding a charger wont be that difficult but yeah, finding one where I will fit and can stay for 10 hours will be the holy grail!

plugshare was originally created as a peer to peer app for esp early adopters who might find themselves in trouble needing to charge.. I had a chevy volt back in 2013 so luckily I had a backup engine.. however I am listed on plugshare becasue I have an L2 charger at my house.. an L2 is only a max of 6.6kw which is what youl;l typically find as many public universal chargers in the wild. . there are starting to be some more DCFC chargers popping up in places.. I dont know what standard those lions support.. if its proprietary to lion (other than L2) if they use the standard 50kw DCFC standard..



obviously you could top off your batteries pretty quick with DCFC but take fortever at L2..


your range is pretty dependent on how you drive.. miles per Kwh are important.. and just like diesel busses how you drive affects your range.. even moreso with electric.. for imstance your Lion should have dynamic Regen braking... there may even be a transmission or vehicle setting in your screen for turning up or down the regen.. if you are the type of driver who waits to step on the brake when stopping at a light then steps fairly hard you will waste more energy.. if you are the type which takes nice long slow ramp-downs where your brake foot is barely on the pedal.. you'll use the Regen much more and save energy.. same with how fast you drive.. haul ass at 65-70 MPH you'll use a lot more battery quickly than if you run at say 55..



being a california bus im not sure what heating and A/C options were ordered... here in ohio the busses ironically are generally shipped with webasto DIESEL heaters.. (yes diesel heaters).... in california they may have heat pumps if equipped with A/C.. if it runs electric reisstance heat then you'll use a ton of battery with the heating systems (if it ever gets cold enough where you are)...


I dont think we are at a point yet in the USA with infrastructure to be able to trek across the country with 70 miles range... in a vehicle with 250 miles range we are esp if you are like me and like to stop a lot..



if you plan to use the bus as a weekender to the lake nearby the nyou likely have a heck of a fantastic platform to work with.. set aside the idea of charging the main batteries with your solar.. at least not directly.. you might be able to charge at Level 1 the simpleton way which would be convert solar to 120VAC and then use a portable L1 charger.. if the bus will support it.. thats 1200-1500 watts.. which is quite a bit for solar to make on top of running your life on the bus (TV, internet, cooking, A/C, etc)..


as for powering your Life on the bus.. from what ive seen of the electrics. they run a standard 12 volt system to handle the bus lighting, onboard bus heaters (in a bus with webasto).. aftermarket A/C (factory A/C may go direct)... radio etc.. this is a pretty beefy 12 volt capability.. someplace it will pre printed what the 12 volt system is capable of.. and you could then draw from the main batteries via that 12 volt setup and use standard invertewr to convert to household power..


thats the simpleton way without getting into trouble playing with the high voltage systems of the raw battery pack... 360 VDC or more typically...

 

[Dusbriver]

Thanks for your input! The Lion is equipped with a 19.2kW Level 2 J1772 connector. The estimate for charging is between 6 and 11 hours, depending. The newer ones can do Level 3 charging, with the added CCS connector.


Good comment about regen braking. Shop mechanic said the drivers didn't change their driving behavior for regen braking and have worn out their pads more than they would, so their range experience could be off a little.


The bus has electrical heating (the idea was to preheat the bus in the AM while still connected to a charger). But there is a diesel option too. It has no AC, which is kind of cruel considering Central Valley heat, but no AC is also common on school busses here. And I'm sure it would kill range.


I agree that driving cross country is still probably not that easy, although I've noticed major truck stops like Loves, Flying J, etc are starting to put in chargers, as electric trucks are starting to come on the market. Still, my plan is to pretty much stay West of the Rockies so maybe it won't be such a big deal?

plugshare was originally created as a peer to peer app for esp early adopters who might find themselves in trouble needing to charge.. I had a chevy volt back in 2013 so luckily I had a backup engine.. however I am listed on plugshare becasue I have an L2 charger at my house.. an L2 is only a max of 6.6kw which is what youl;l typically find as many public universal chargers in the wild. . there are starting to be some more DCFC chargers popping up in places.. I dont know what standard those lions support.. if its proprietary to lion (other than L2) if they use the standard 50kw DCFC standard..



obviously you could top off your batteries pretty quick with DCFC but take fortever at L2..


your range is pretty dependent on how you drive.. miles per Kwh are important.. and just like diesel busses how you drive affects your range.. even moreso with electric.. for imstance your Lion should have dynamic Regen braking... there may even be a transmission or vehicle setting in your screen for turning up or down the regen.. if you are the type of driver who waits to step on the brake when stopping at a light then steps fairly hard you will waste more energy.. if you are the type which takes nice long slow ramp-downs where your brake foot is barely on the pedal.. you'll use the Regen much more and save energy.. same with how fast you drive.. haul ass at 65-70 MPH you'll use a lot more battery quickly than if you run at say 55..



being a california bus im not sure what heating and A/C options were ordered... here in ohio the busses ironically are generally shipped with webasto DIESEL heaters.. (yes diesel heaters).... in california they may have heat pumps if equipped with A/C.. if it runs electric reisstance heat then you'll use a ton of battery with the heating systems (if it ever gets cold enough where you are)...


I dont think we are at a point yet in the USA with infrastructure to be able to trek across the country with 70 miles range... in a vehicle with 250 miles range we are esp if you are like me and like to stop a lot..



if you plan to use the bus as a weekender to the lake nearby the nyou likely have a heck of a fantastic platform to work with.. set aside the idea of charging the main batteries with your solar.. at least not directly.. you might be able to charge at Level 1 the simpleton way which would be convert solar to 120VAC and then use a portable L1 charger.. if the bus will support it.. thats 1200-1500 watts.. which is quite a bit for solar to make on top of running your life on the bus (TV, internet, cooking, A/C, etc)..


as for powering your Life on the bus.. from what ive seen of the electrics. they run a standard 12 volt system to handle the bus lighting, onboard bus heaters (in a bus with webasto).. aftermarket A/C (factory A/C may go direct)... radio etc.. this is a pretty beefy 12 volt capability.. someplace it will pre printed what the 12 volt system is capable of.. and you could then draw from the main batteries via that 12 volt setup and use standard invertewr to convert to household power..


thats the simpleton way without getting into trouble playing with the high voltage systems of the raw battery pack... 360 VDC or more typically...

 

[DeMac]

Photos & Propane

Congratulations & Welcome.

You are likely skoolie.net's first e-skoolie member. We're all looking forward to seeing lots of photos of your rig. Most of us have not seen the E-drivetrain, axles, etc... Feel welcome to photobomb us, we dig pix.

ICE RVs & skoolies commonly use propane for heating, cooking, hot water, refrigerators & generators. An E-transit RV would benefit from propane accessories, for all the same reasons. If a gene & solar could also be incorporated for adding range, awesome.

I'm looking forward to hearing more about your plans. Heck, I'm daydreaming already. Please keep us informed with each new discovery and any wild ideas. This is a terrific community, we'll be here to help & learn, along with you.

 

[cadillackid]

in california electric trucks are coming out so there are EV chargers in some of those stops.. if you were to trek across the country you wont find near as many until you get to the east coast where some HD EV chargers are starting to appear...



Lack of A/C in school busses is pretty common.. im not sure how california operates but out here in ohio school is out in the hottest time of year.. the county where I live operates a fleet of 100% Air conditioned busses that handle all of the summer school transportation for even the city and suburb kids.. the city of columbus ohio itself orders zero busses with A/C.. even the van cutaways which come with dash A/C standard on the van platform dont get any rear unit.. apparently the A/C delete option was dropped at GMC so they cant delete it anymore or it would be a special build with actually more cost than just keeping it..



of course the couple EV busses ive ridden were A/C'd because they are demo units for the manufacturer so they had every option.. including fancy touchscreen switch panels and such like you mentioned were surprised the lion doesnt have.. Lion is a bit of an off-brand in most parts of the country.. they actually made diesel busses for a good while and we have some in ohio.. apparently their claim to fame is for northern climates the busses are made of a good part composite materials to help with salt-belt longevity.. every diesel lion I see around me looks brand new still compared the the IC busses that get rusty in 5 years or less..

 

[HamSkoolie]

A few bucks under 24k, which is double what an earlier bus went for, so I probably overpaid because I always over pay.

24k ?? As in 24 thousand? For a bus with a range of 70 miles? YIKES.
Perhaps you can go on GovDeals and find a MilSurp 10 or 20kW generator and incorporate it. Sort of a DIY Hybrid.

BTW, had a good time in Sacramento! Really interesting town. Definitely looking forward to going back.

SacraTomato (as we natives from NorCal - which is north of Sac by about 6 miles) is NOT a good place. My sister came home from work, something was "off" and she found that one of the windows was broken like someone had broken in. She called 911 and the dispatcher said, "I'll stay on the line while you search the house for an intruder".....WTF? TWO WEEKS later a "community service officer" showed up to "take a report".
Be careful if you return. It's probably no worse than any other large city but that's crazy.

 

[cadillackid]

24k ?? As in 24 thousand? For a bus with a range of 70 miles? YIKES.
Perhaps you can go on GovDeals and find a MilSurp 10 or 20kW generator and incorporate it. Sort of a DIY Hybrid.






SacraTomato (as we natives from NorCal - which is north of Sac by about 6 miles) is NOT a good place. My sister came home from work, something was "off" and she found that one of the windows was broken like someone had broken in. She called 911 and the dispatcher said, "I'll stay on the line while you search the house for an intruder".....WTF? TWO WEEKS later a "community service officer" showed up to "take a report".
Be careful if you return. It's probably no worse than any other large city but that's crazy.

its like any city.. its what you make of it.. theres good and bad.. im in Portland right now.. some say its a total craphole since 2020.. others say its 100% perfect... reality is its both like every city I travel.. theres parts where all the stores are closed, coffee houses are gone and boards everywhere.. walk a couple blocks and its rockin n rollin, vibrant, lively and businesses are obviously doing well... walk another couple blocks and it smells like piss... take your pick...



columbus where i live is the same.. so is dallas where i was for a few weeks.. and even st louis..

 

[Bus'n it]

Congratulations on the bus! You are probably the first to post your experiences with it. I know we are all curious and looking forward to your findings. I will say that 105kw of battery bank is really small for moving it around. I put in 31kw in my coach which will run everything for 2 days. You could either add more battery or tow a diesel generator

 

[jbeech]

This is interesting.

 

[cadillackid]

Lion offers these busses with multiple battery options.. however from someone i know in the industry, lion's first stab at the EV market was / is designed to hit the Majority urban / suburban school system.. 70-90 mile range per route was designed ot be more than enough for 80-90% of the routes in such districts.. this way they get their feet wet and learn as they go with a product that made it to market akongside and before the Big 3 (thomas, bluebird, IC)..



im guessing each one of those battery packs must be in the 25 kwh range.. so you could always look for one on the secondary market.. chances are at least a few of those lions have been wrecked or had a failure in such a way the batteries were not damaged.. and could possibly be had on the secondary market..