New to School Busses w/ Decisions to Make.

[Hooker-SKO]

Been looking around here and figured it was time to jump in. I've seen where I could have some input and will certainly like some opinions, feedback and some answers from time to time.

As with me, when I dive in, I really dive in. So I first bought a 2002 Freightliner/Thomas with a Cummins 24V that the engine runs great. The AT545, ehhh not so sure it's working properly and it appears to have a leak in the bellhousing which can't be good. Wasn't exactly sure what I was going to do with it just yet, then came across a fairly good deal on a 2005 Blue Bird Vision. I really don't care for the CAT C7, but at least it's the better earlier C7 and does have the Allison 2000. The C7 runs fine once it's finally started and runs about 15 seconds, but it's got some cold misfires real bad which the seller was able to hide from me by having it warmed up real good before I got there.

So now I decide which one for sure I'm going to build out. So far leaning toward the Blue Bird that has 131,000 miles, where the Freighliner/Thomas has 200,000 miles and no OD transmission. I sure prefer the screws of the Thomas over the Rivets of the Blue Bird though. But then the Blue Bird seems to have about 2 inches more headroom clearance which is huge considering I'm not doing a roof raise but want to put at least 1inch Formular insulation in the floor. Decisions decisions !!!

 

[ewo1]

Been looking around here and figured it was time to jump in. I've seen where I could have some input and will certainly like some opinions, feedback and some answers from time to time.

As with me, when I dive in, I really dive in. So I first bought a 2002 Freightliner/Thomas with a Cummins 24V that the engine runs great. The AT545, ehhh not so sure it's working properly and it appears to have a leak in the bellhousing which can't be good. Wasn't exactly sure what I was going to do with it just yet, then came across a fairly good deal on a 2005 Blue Bird Vision. I really don't care for the CAT C7, but at least it's the better earlier C7 and does have the Allison 2000. The C7 runs fine once it's finally started and runs about 15 seconds, but it's got some cold misfires real bad which the seller was able to hide from me by having it warmed up real good before I got there.

So now I decide which one for sure I'm going to build out. So far leaning toward the Blue Bird that has 131,000 miles, where the Freighliner/Thomas has 200,000 miles and no OD transmission. I sure prefer the screws of the Thomas over the Rivets of the Blue Bird though. But then the Blue Bird seems to have about 2 inches more headroom clearance which is huge considering I'm not doing a roof raise but want to put at least 1inch Formular insulation in the floor. Decisions decisions !!!

At545 vs allison 2000…. 2000 wins!
2 inches more headroom…. Wins!
131k vs 200k miles…. ???


What about rust ??? A/c ???

Me personally would go with the bluebird… under such limited options given.

 

[BarnYardCamp]

another negative on the Thomas Built is that the walls angle in. Not a huge issue, but it does take more time and effort to accommodate.

Higher ceiling and a good tranny are huge pluses.

 

[cadillackid]

does the C7 just run a little rough for a few seconds asfter startup? that sounds about like every C7 ive ever been around esp cold.. if it triggers the check engine light then you could diagnose what isnt right.. but a few seconds of rough idle in a diesel never bothered me.. id put some white-bottle power service in it.. check the fuel filters and also some fresh fuel and then determine what it does..



the only issue ive ever found with C7 that was serious was one that ran low oil pressure and had lots of blow by after it was good and warmed up.. that was an engone I knew likely had once bad injectors.. likelt the rings and bearings were shot.. so that bus got sent right along..



so id look at other things... is the fuel fresh? are the filters good? is there excessive blowby? hows the oil pressure after its been driven 30 minutes? (not just idled)..

 

[Hooker-SKO]

At545 vs allison 2000…. 2000 wins!
2 inches more headroom…. Wins!
131k vs 200k miles…. ???


What about rust ??? A/c ???

Me personally would go with the bluebird… under such limited options given.

Rust? What is that? There is little to none on either one. In fact I just started tearing out the floor on the Blue Bird, other than by the back door where the door gasket is missing and you can see light through the door edge, there is a bit of surface rust on the floor, other than that, the floor is so clean it's actually hard to believe. There is a little at the top of the steps too, I'd imagine high traffic area where lots of wet feet got on the bus. No AC on either bus and that I'm glad of since I'd prefer to do my own thing as far as AC, mini split or roof type RV units, haven't decided yet.

 

[Hooker-SKO]

Yes, the warmer the weather, the easier it starts and the quicker it smoothes out and the gray smoke goes away. Being summer time, it starts fairly easy, smoothes out in about 8 seconds and then is fine. Winter time, a bit of a pain to get it to start, and then it takes about 15-20 seconds to smooth out. Fuel is fresh, I have replaced the filters.

Yes, the C7 scares me a bit, but from what all I'm learning, since it's a 2005, not a 2007 or later, if I just keep good clean oil, good oil filtration and don't use synthetic oil, I shouldn't have many problems with it. The Oil pressure is really good. At start up it's showing 80lbs once warmed up it's about 70 while driving and will drop to about 55-60 at idle.

 

[Hooker-SKO]

Yes, the warmer the weather, the easier it starts and the quicker it smoothes out and the gray smoke goes away. Being summer time, it starts fairly easy, smoothes out in about 8 seconds and then is fine. Winter time, a bit of a pain to get it to start, and then it takes about 15-20 seconds to smooth out. Fuel is fresh, I have replaced the filters.

Yes, the C7 scares me a bit, but from what all I'm learning, since it's a 2005, not a 2007 or later, if I just keep good clean oil, good oil filtration and don't use synthetic oil, I shouldn't have many problems with it. The Oil pressure is really good. At start up it's showing 80lbs once warmed up it's about 70 while driving and will drop to about 55-60 at idle. I don't see any blow by to speak of at all.

 

[cadillackid]

that sounds almost like every one of the C7s a buddy of mine has.. he runs Rotella 15W40 standard oil.. and they all have fairly long crank times (5-10 seconds) before firing... then chug a few seconds and smooth out.. his are 2005s..



to me road A/C is a must... minisplits are an excellent option for stationary A/C but wont cut it on the road..



ive done some trips in the really hot weather (texas and florida, alabama , georgia.. etc) in june-august and am really glad to have full road A/C in all my busses.... even driving my 1978 Superior around with just high capacity dash air today where its 87 and Muggy has been nice vs driving that bus before I out in the A/C.. I really didnt drive it much in hot weather then..

 

[Hooker-SKO]

that sounds almost like every one of the C7s a buddy of mine has.. he runs Rotella 15W40 standard oil.. and they all have fairly long crank times (5-10 seconds) before firing... then chug a few seconds and smooth out.. his are 2005s..



to me road A/C is a must... minisplits are an excellent option for stationary A/C but wont cut it on the road..



ive done some trips in the really hot weather (texas and florida, alabama , georgia.. etc) in june-august and am really glad to have full road A/C in all my busses.... even driving my 1978 Superior around with just high capacity dash air today where its 87 and Muggy has been nice vs driving that bus before I out in the A/C.. I really didnt drive it much in hot weather then..

So are his C7's reliable other than the funky starting up? This one seems to run fantastic once it's initially started and smoothed out a few seconds later, and even shutting it off and restarting it like an hour or so later, it starts up just fine and runs great. Due to the common foggy gauge lenses, if not paying close attention I'm doing 80-82mph and have to slow it back down to 70-75 and usually just set the cruise. Now my Cummins 24 valve starts right up, smooth as silk no matter how cold it is. Runs good but seems to fall on it's face pretty quick on small hills so I'm pretty sure the C7 has more torque for sure, cuz I know the BB is bigger and heavier. Although the BB also is running 5.29 rear gears and that's a big help for pulling the hills. I'd imagine the Freightliner may have 4.44's in the rear but it's also an AT545 and no OD or Converter lock up.

By road AC, are you talking about the big overhead units inside? I do have another shorter BB with 2 of those units it it, but it was an International so to install those, I'd have to get CAT mounted engine compressors.

I know I'm leaving all the factory engine coolant heaters in place and going to incorporate those into my build. I can't believe everyone rips that stuff out.