Number of batteries "needed"

[cadillackid]

Yes Carrier systems, three of them. VERY nice cables. I have 155 feet of the 7 conductor cable from the A/C units and 80 feet of 3 conductor cable from the heater units. Nice heavy conductors too.


I'd love to resell the evaporators and condensers, even the cables if needed. Not much of a market here in southern Oregon or northern California apparently.
I have two EM1 and one EM3 evap units as well as three CM3 condenser units. All in working order.


I'd say AT LEAST that much as I pulled the evaporators, condensers, hoses (200 feet of those VERY heavy hoses), cables, control boards, EVERYTHING from nose to rear.

heres no $$ in A/C parts.. I wont pay for them used as I know theres always someone who will give them to me if i help them pull them out.. although after the lady threatened to sue me last year over A/C stuff i may not touch another one.. havent decided.. the gist being the wife said they were ugly and wanted them gone, the hubby wanted to keep them.. I pulled them out, they gave the units to me.. I repurposed the units by giving them to someone else.. the hubby said "I told you so and you are on your own with the kids on family trips ill drive my A/Cd car behind".. the wife wanted the A/C put back in then.. I said "sorry I dont have it anymore". she said "ill sue you to buy us new ones".. blah blah.. ha!! anyway that ghave me a sour taste about helping people with their A/C.. I had even told her to go drive the bus on a 95 degree day with the A/C turned off.. and they didnt do it... not my issue.. nevertheless thiose units are keeping someone else nice N cool and I habe a bunch of the wire

 

[magnakansas]

My ac systems

I am of the same mind as CadillacKid. I have resisted buying used air conditioning systems. I have helped to remove them.

I do see them from time to time for free. If I buy stuff it is really low priced or I am buying new stuff.

I also added heaters or increased the size of heaters.

william

 

[HamSkoolie]

heres no $$ in A/C parts.. I wont pay for them used as I know theres always someone who will give them to me if i help them pull them out.. although after the lady threatened to sue me last year over A/C stuff i may not touch another one.. havent decided.. the gist being the wife said they were ugly and wanted them gone, the hubby wanted to keep them.. I pulled them out, they gave the units to me.. I repurposed the units by giving them to someone else.. the hubby said "I told you so and you are on your own with the kids on family trips ill drive my A/Cd car behind".. the wife wanted the A/C put back in then.. I said "sorry I dont have it anymore". she said "ill sue you to buy us new ones".. blah blah.. ha!! anyway that ghave me a sour taste about helping people with their A/C.. I had even told her to go drive the bus on a 95 degree day with the A/C turned off.. and they didnt do it... not my issue.. nevertheless thiose units are keeping someone else nice N cool and I habe a bunch of the wire

Some people's kids. I'm gonna sue you for doing exactly what you advised me not to have you do and I insisted upon. The problem is some idiot lawyer will take the case and then yo have to answer the suit. I just hate sending good units to the scrap yard. Maybe I'll pull some of the maintenance parts and just send the big stuff. Fans, blowers, etc. could be put n a box for when someone goes "hey anyone got".

 

[Dave1939]

Batteries

Hi Adic27. I have a 2007 International bus with the Dt466e engine and it has three batteries. Fires up good with three. If you have room for three batteries, you should put three. If you're troubleshooting, maybe something is drawing power like a corroded solenoid or relay. like it's been said, disconnect them when you're not troubleshooting. I did that with my motorhome until I found the issue with it.

 

[BamaBus]

Hi Adic27. I have a 2007 International bus with the Dt466e engine and it has three batteries. Fires up good with three. If you have room for three batteries, you should put three. If you're troubleshooting, maybe something is drawing power like a corroded solenoid or relay. like it's been said, disconnect them when you're not troubleshooting. I did that with my motorhome until I found the issue with it.

Dave, He has an electrical short or bad connection that 10 batteries won't correct and seems to ignore that or is just playing with us. But disconnecting them would help.

At the moment, I have on brand new group 31 battery and was wondering if that's absolutely enough to start my dt466e engine. My old batteries tested bad even tho they hold high voltage for days at 35-40°f. Bad cells I guess.

Anyway, I am trying to troubleshoot starting issues and want to confirm one is enough for sure before I move on to other possible issues. I don't want to use two while troubleshooting if I don't have to since it's possible the issue can kill the new battery. Don't wanna kill two of them.

Also, what batteries would you guys recommend? Any group 31 battery with the right CCA RC specs? I have been using 2 super start heavy duty fleet batteries since I purchased the bus. Replaced them and the original ones due to an issue that turned out to be the alternator a while back. I saw similar batteries from auto advance auto with more CCA CA and RC but 6 months less on the warranty.

Thanks

adic27, I would avoid the Advance Die Hard Battery. I returned one 367 days from purchase and they wouldn't touch it since it was only guaranteed for 365. I normally use the O'Reilly for the warranty but also have a connection for a discount. Unless it is a warm day with an engine that reliably starts, use two.

The video you posted in another thread showing dash when cranking showed the warn engine light quickly blink then turn back on before cranking. Then it turned on once again while cranking. To me it indicates a short/loose connection somewhere after the blown fuse you had. May also be an additional issue with the ignition switch. Please address your steps in attempting to solve that issue....

 

[adic27]

If you're having issues with getting enough juice, I can heartily recommend Mechman alternators. I've used them on a couple of high performance pickup builds and they run flawlessly, with a 100 amp idle and 270 amp peak production. Looks like they've changed their lineup since I last bought, making even more power. These guys are capable of more power at idle than most OEM alternators can produce at their maximum speed. And, if need be, they can set you up with a dual alternator setup. I know they can handle GM, Dodge and Ford engines, and this should cover their diesel engines as well. Since Ford and Dodge have used Cummins and other make diesels in the past, they might be able to work on other bus alternators as well. Be worth looking into. If nothing else, ambulances are also made by the same people making buses, and ambulances have to be able to produce enough juice to keep injured people alive in all conditions. High performance alternators aren't cheap, but they'll make sure everything runs.

For the testing part - as long as the one battery has enough power to start the engine, it should be fine for testing, but not to rely upon. Don't go for a drive, you might not start at the next place. Don't expect to test on cold days either, diesels are harder to start when it's cold which is why they come with two batteries. Two 1000CCA 12V batteries wired in parallel will be the same as a 2000CCA 12V battery. But why kill a new battery? Visit your local salvage yard and buy two used batteries. Put them both on the charger, then test away. Save the new battery for when you have your electrical troubleshooting done.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[adic27]

Hi Adic27. I have a 2007 International bus with the Dt466e engine and it has three batteries. Fires up good with three. If you have room for three batteries, you should put three. If you're troubleshooting, maybe something is drawing power like a corroded solenoid or relay. like it's been said, disconnect them when you're not troubleshooting. I did that with my motorhome until I found the issue with it.

Thanks. I have been keeping the new one on a low 1.5 amp charger since its been cold. Got the old ones back up to over 700 CCA with this charger but not sure if it makes a difference now since they both seem to have bad cells. Wish I could revive them, but not likely I guess. Gonna get a second new one soon. Hopefully that will started but I got a bad feeling with all the flash codes I recently discovered. We'll see soon enough

 

[adic27]

Dave, He has an electrical short or bad connection that 10 batteries won't correct and seems to ignore that or is just playing with us. But disconnecting them would help.




adic27, I would avoid the Advance Die Hard Battery. I returned one 367 days from purchase and they wouldn't touch it since it was only guaranteed for 365. I normally use the O'Reilly for the warranty but also have a connection for a discount. Unless it is a warm day with an engine that reliably starts, use two.

The video you posted in another thread showing dash when cranking showed the warn engine light quickly blink then turn back on before cranking. Then it turned on once again while cranking. To me it indicates a short/loose connection somewhere after the blown fuse you had. May also be an additional issue with the ignition switch. Please address your steps in attempting to solve that issue....

Thanks for the tips but I promise I am not "playing wit you". I've been looking at vid after vid to learn about the dt466e engine. Also purchased a service manual for it as well.

I have not been able to reproduce the wire short issue and had cleaned dried battery acid corrosion off a few terminals real good. Wasn't bad, IMO, but maybe bad enough to be the issue as far as that? I wiggled the wires like **** like before but can't get it to happen again.

As for the ignition switch, assuming you're referring to the lock cylinder part, I tested that long ago before I figured out the fuse was burned out. Tested to be working correctly with a multimeter. The engine cranks good and consistently so I'm not sure how it could be the ignition switch..

 

[HamSkoolie]

Pretty sure it's been said before and by multiple people.....
TAKE THE BATTERIES TO A PROFESSIONAL SHOP (BATTERIES PLUS BULBS IS GREAT AS ARE MOST REPUTABLE PARTS STORES).
HAVE THEM TESTED BY PROFESSIONALS WITH PROFESSIONAL EQUIPMENT.
Statements such as:

"Got the old ones back up to over 700 CCA with this charger but not sure if it makes a difference now since they both seem to have bad cells.",

and
"Wish I could revive them, but not likely I guess"
......just tell us that you are asking for help and then ignoring the offered help and doing what you want to do.
A SLIGHTLY low voltage supply to the ECM will throw a lot of codes and prevent the engine from firing even though the engine "turns over just fine". But it's not fine because it's say 10 RMP too slow and the voltage is 1/2 volt too low.... the computer will say DO NOT FIRE.
The vast majority of "my bus wont start" threads in this forum are due to one of two things (yes there are a few others but these cover 85% plus).
1) insufficient battery capacity to satisfy starting requirements
2) Help, I cut a wire and now my bus wont start

 

[adic27]

Pretty sure it's been said before and by multiple people.....
TAKE THE BATTERIES TO A PROFESSIONAL SHOP (BATTERIES PLUS BULBS IS GREAT AS ARE MOST REPUTABLE PARTS STORES).
HAVE THEM TESTED BY PROFESSIONALS WITH PROFESSIONAL EQUIPMENT.
Statements such as:

"Got the old ones back up to over 700 CCA with this charger but not sure if it makes a difference now since they both seem to have bad cells.",

and
"Wish I could revive them, but not likely I guess"
......just tell us that you are asking for help and then ignoring the offered help and doing what you want to do.
A SLIGHTLY low voltage supply to the ECM will throw a lot of codes and prevent the engine from firing even though the engine "turns over just fine". But it's not fine because it's say 10 RMP too slow and the voltage is 1/2 volt too low.... the computer will say DO NOT FIRE.
The vast majority of "my bus wont start" threads in this forum are due to one of two things (yes there are a few others but these cover 85% plus).
1) insufficient battery capacity to satisfy starting requirements
2) Help, I cut a wire and now my bus wont start

3 auto parts stores said the batteries tested bad. That's why I'm going to get a second new battery when i can! Is this place you mention any different than Autozone, Advance Auto or Orielly?

 

[BigPaul367]

The 'e' means it is electronic, which means even when it is not running there is an extra draw on the batteries. If you see ANY extra wires on your batteries, they are powering extra accessories on the Bus. You cannot get good batteries anymore, used to be you could get seven years batteries. the BEST I can find, these days, is three years, NOTHING bigger. I fix Garbage trucks, they ALL have three batteries. In the battery box there are six to ten extra wires with fuses connected to the terminals. They power things like Dash-cams, ECMs, Computers, GPS Trackers, Collection body electronics, Lights ECMs and Gauge ECMs. There are Cut-off switches on every truck, the drivers are required to shut off the batteries at the end of every shift. There is a price top pay if they do not and the truck does not start the next day. ONE Battery?!? NO WAY!!

 

[adic27]

The 'e' means it is electronic, which means even when it is not running there is an extra draw on the batteries. If you see ANY extra wires on your batteries, they are powering extra accessories on the Bus. You cannot get good batteries anymore, used to be you could get seven years batteries. the BEST I can find, these days, is three years, NOTHING bigger. I fix Garbage trucks, they ALL have three batteries. In the battery box there are six to ten extra wires with fuses connected to the terminals. They power things like Dash-cams, ECMs, Computers, GPS Trackers, Collection body electronics, Lights ECMs and Gauge ECMs. There are Cut-off switches on every truck, the drivers are required to shut off the batteries at the end of every shift. There is a price top pay if they do not and the truck does not start the next day. ONE Battery?!? NO WAY!!

Ok thanks. I going to get a new second battery, hopefully today or tomorrow. Waiting on some money owed to me. Hoping that's all it was and I don't have to go looking for damaged injectors and such

 

[HamSkoolie]

3 auto parts stores said the batteries tested bad. That's why I'm going to get a second new battery when i can! Is this place you mention any different than Autozone, Advance Auto or Orielly?

Batteries Plus Bulbs is a niche store and thus generally more knowledgeable on the specific topic of batteries and bulbs. AutoZone, OReiley's, NAPA, etc. should all have the same level of test equipment but topic specific knowledge may be lower. Batteries are a common maintenance item though so possibly not.
For most purposes, any of them will work for testing a battery.

 

[incubus]

8D's are expensive, limited warrants, so, I buy two largest SUV batterys from Walmart. Never had a problem,they fail theres a Walmart every town it seems. They start my Detroit 455hp 8V92 TA better than D8's. Also since most of the extra lights and circuits are removed and not needed, you dont need all the storage of a D8.

 

[adic27]

Batteries Plus Bulbs is a niche store and thus generally more knowledgeable on the specific topic of batteries and bulbs. AutoZone, OReiley's, NAPA, etc. should all have the same level of test equipment but topic specific knowledge may be lower. Batteries are a common maintenance item though so possibly not.
For most purposes, any of them will work for testing a battery.

Well, I was finally able to purchase a second battery from O'Reilly's. No luck and the warn engine light still comes on after a few seconds of crank/turning over. Also purchased a nice 3-in-1 charger/tester/repairer, tells me the CCA and other things. Automatically sets the amps when charging and gets as low as under 1.5 amps! Shows test results in like 3 seconds.

So, guess I can rule batteries completely out. Now I gotta figure out how to check whatever wires and I guess check the injectors. I found a detailed video on youtube someone posted that I'll be trying to follow. Hopefully that and the book help me figure this out. Thanks to all who tried to help..

 

[TheHubbardBus]

There wasn't a lot of history given on your old batteries and what may have led them to develop bad cells. If I were you I'd at least keep a close eye on them, if not disconnect them during periods when you can't. Keeping them on a smart trickle charger constantly is a good idea. Keeping them on a non-trickle charger is not. I don't know what charger you have but the above is something to keep in mind. Familiarize yourself with lead acid 12V states of charge if you aren't already. Most people don't realize that 12.3V means it's half-way dead, or just how 'high' completely discharged is. 12.7-12.8V is what you want to keep them at. Multi-meter is a must if you don't have one. Doesn't have to be expensive. Learn to use it if you don't know already. It will become the most useful tool you own. Good luck. Hope the problem is easily & inexpensively resolved.

 

[Booyah45828]

used to be you could get seven years batteries. the BEST I can find, these days, is three years, NOTHING bigger.

The batteries didn't change, the warranty did.

Your "7 Year" battery actually only had a year or two warrantied at free replacement, the remainder of the warranty was a pro-rata based discount off the list price of the battery. That type of system is complicated and relies upon an equation to figure, and often times you'll find that the list price is double to triple what you would pay for a battery, meaning that you won't get a discount at all.

Here is a link to napa's battery warranty if you want to waste some time. https://s7d9.scene7.com/is/content/GenuinePartsCompany/224380713pdf?$PDF$

We don't sell pro-rata warrantied batteries in the shop, as they're too complicated to figure and explain to the customer. I got tired of being yelled at by people who purchased a 7 year battery thinking they'd get a new one given to them when it fails at 6.5 years. We only sell free replacement warranties, and our top of the line battery has a max warranty of 3 years. After the switch, the headaches and frustrations of battery warranties went away, it's black and white now. Also, FWIW, if you are given a new battery under warranty, the warranty on it follows the timeline of the old one, it doesn't renew. So if your battery fails 12 months out of the 18 month warranty, you have 6 months of warranty on the new one, it doesn't reset back to 18 months.

Most manufacturers are actually switching away from a pro-rata warranty because of the headaches. I also think there was a lawsuit about this as well, but I'm not sure if it went anywhere.

 

[cadillackid]

I remember those pro rata battery warranties that were pretty much worthless after the first year. Some of autozones 84 month batteries actually you got less than half toward a new one after the first year..

I’ve had good luck with batteries plus and their 24 month replacement warranties on all but their top of the line which I think are 36 month replacement .

Worst battery warranty ever we’re my rural king batteries that I got something like 40% after just 12 months..

Batteries are such a volatile item to warranty anyway since one complete discharge event .. ie left the dome light on for a month. Can destroy a set of even new ones.

 

[adic27]

There wasn't a lot of history given on your old batteries and what may have led them to develop bad cells. If I were you I'd at least keep a close eye on them, if not disconnect them during periods when you can't. Keeping them on a smart trickle charger constantly is a good idea. Keeping them on a non-trickle charger is not. I don't know what charger you have but the above is something to keep in mind. Familiarize yourself with lead acid 12V states of charge if you aren't already. Most people don't realize that 12.3V means it's half-way dead, or just how 'high' completely discharged is. 12.7-12.8V is what you want to keep them at. Multi-meter is a must if you don't have one. Doesn't have to be expensive. Learn to use it if you don't know already. It will become the most useful tool you own. Good luck. Hope the problem is easily & inexpensively resolved.

The charger I borrowed from someone might have been what killed them. It wasn't a trickle charger. It had one rapid charge setting. I might have let them charge too long. I have a new one that's pretty sweet. Here's the link. It auto sets the charge rate and doesn't go higher than I think 3.5 amps(?). Also tells you the CCA in like 3 seconds.

I have a multimeter. Before, I was just going by the voltage being good. This new charger actually tells me if a battery is good/good, but low and needs charge/bad, needs replacement. It might tell if a battery needs repaired, gotta get back in the manual. But definitely has a "repair" function. Lots of settings. Will not let the new batteries get destroyed. BTW, what do you mean keep an I on the old batteries? I was planning to return them for the core charge.

Thanks for the tips!

 

[TheHubbardBus]

OK, cool adic27. Looks nice.
I mis-spoke. I meant keep an eye on your new batteries, not the old ones.
Best thing you can to do get the longest life from lead acid is keep them fully charged, minimizing discharge cycles & discharge depth. Looks like that charger has a maintenance mode where it can be left on 24/7/365 (confirm, I'm assuming). If so, that's a great feature and should be used whenever possible. We leave our smart trickle on constantly when the vehicle isn't in motion, and it makes a significant difference in longevity, particularly in the summer months where heat really accelerates self-discharge w/o it.