Planning for a Future Build

[Jema]

I'm planning to build a rig in 2027. That gives me some time to learn and plan. I want a rig that I can live in year round. Some of my wants: Closed cell spray foam insulation, rv windows, free of rust, reliable and easy to work on drive train, not too many miles, reliable electric supply, ability to connect water and electric, kitchen, bathroom, Japanese style bathtub, laundry, air conditioning, heated floors, eye-catching exterior paint, rear deck.

For now I'm learning, dreaming, and looking for mentorship, advice, and education. My next steps will be drafting up ideas for floor layouts. I'd like to simultaneously keep my eyes peeled for the perfect rig for my needs, although I'm not yet sure what that is.

I'm in Yellow Springs, Ohio (near Dayton, Columbus, and Cincinnati).

 

[Timeline]

FYI, some busses have more headroom, you can spot them by the taller windows.

 

[nikitis]

Welcome to the site! However, Let me lower your expectations a tiny bit.

All those things you listed can be had for sure, but finding a bus that has all 4 of "Reliable, rust free, low miles,and easy to work on drive train" is a unicorn bus.

First off, older buses usually don't have low miles.

Older buses are easier to work on the drive train, but often has some rust to deal with.

To have a bus with no rust, you need a much newer bus which has difficult drive train to work on due to extra costs and complexity of emissions and BMS's.

So it is like one of those memes where there is a triangle, each point of the triangle is an option you want in a base bus, but are told you can only pick two.

This is more reality. The better you set expectations at the start, the more likely this dream of bus ownership comes to full fruition.

My point for saying all of this is to not discourage you but to start your journey off right.

Now, that being said, people often choose Buses over RVs because they are willing to put in a lot of work, and to save money, and safety reasons.

Buses are used and are often sold because they have hidden issues that a fleet owner didn't want to deal with.

Most will run into an issue at some point with an engine issue, and may have to replace at some point if you are unlucky. Engine replacements cost around $20k to replace. Its a low chance it is something that serious,but you have to be ready for that possibility mentally and financially.

Rust will be on any bus, but its a matter of how much and is it manageable?

Showing us pictures here of under carriage, we can assist with purchase decisions in regards to rust. No one can tell you if rust exists under the rubber floors till you tare into them. I've seen newer busses with more rust than a 30 year old bus, because the metàl used isn't as good or as well prepped as they used to do.

Newer buses have emissions in them, which break down the engine faster and cause unnecessary problems and costs.

All in all, if you can accept this heartache, then there are busses out there for you to find, and Welcome to the family!

2000 - 2004 years are going be the best buses meeting your criterias. Good luck!

 

[Jema]

Welcome to the site! However, Let me lower your expectations a tiny bit.

All those things you listed can be had for sure, but finding a bus that has all 4 of "Reliable, rust free, low miles,and easy to work on drive train" is a unicorn bus.

First off, older buses usually don't have low miles.

Older buses are easier to work on the drive train, but often has some rust to deal with.

To have a bus with no rust, you need a much newer bus which has difficult drive train to work on due to extra costs and complexity of emissions and BMS's.

So it is like one of those memes where there is a triangle, each point of the triangle is an option you want in a base bus, but are told you can only pick two.

This is more reality. The better you set expectations at the start, the more likely this dream of bus ownership comes to full fruition.

My point for saying all of this is to not discourage you but to start your journey off right.

Now, that being said, people often choose Buses over RVs because they are willing to put in a lot of work, and to save money, and safety reasons.

Buses are used and are often sold because they have hidden issues that a fleet owner didn't want to deal with.

Most will run into an issue at some point with an engine issue, and may have to replace at some point if you are unlucky. Engine replacements cost around $20k to replace. Its a low chance it is something that serious,but you have to be ready for that possibility mentally and financially.

Rust will be on any bus, but its a matter of how much and is it manageable?

Showing us pictures here of under carriage, we can assist with purchase decisions in regards to rust. No one can tell you if rust exists under the rubber floors till you tare into them. I've seen newer busses with more rust than a 30 year old bus, because the metàl used isn't as good or as well prepped as they used to do.

Newer buses have emissions in them, which break down the engine faster and cause unnecessary problems and costs.

All in all, if you can accept this heartache, then there are busses out there for you to find, and Welcome to the family!

2000 - 2004 years are going be the best buses meeting your criterias. Good luck!

I'm happy to have a bus with emissions controls if I get a good balance of the other things I want. I'm interested in learning more about different bus manufacturers and different engines and transmissions. That way I can have a better idea of what to look for.

 

[Busjamin]

Well if you're slow-playing this thru 2027, you'll have more than enough time to do your mental download and learn exactly which bus you want. It's not terribly complex; I just made my purchase in about two months but I was doing full-time hunting on a mission. I actually felt like I knew too much by the time we pulled the trigger; I could find reasons to rule out every bus in the country...

One thing to consider is that the longer you wait, the fewer older buses will be coming to market. As I understand, we're already seeing some of the last big rounds of early-2000s buses coming off 20-year service life. Hence we just got a 2004.

You'll find a ton of good info here. I recommend using google search and simply adding the word "skoolie" to the end of your query. For example, googling "Cummins ISC 8.3 skoolie" will return several threads from this forum discussing the Cummins ISC engine.

 

[Rucker]

The best way of learning is doing. Have you considered buying a van and fitting it out so you can get basic conversion experience?

 

[Busjamin]

The best way of learning is doing. Have you considered buying a van and fitting it out so you can get basic conversion experience?

You said this in my Welcome thread too.

I've seen you around a lot of threads on the forum giving good feedback so I know you didn't mean it this way, but I was a little offended lol. My first impression was like, "Oof do I seem that unprepared?"

But for one thing, I'd love to see fewer ruined buses end up listed on FBM with a half-assed insulation job because someone didn't think it through before going and bidding on a nice auction bus. A bus someone more serious could have done well with.....I guess if those folks tried it out on a van first, we wouldn't have to deal with this issue.

If OP is projecting out to 2027, I think it's safe to say they'll figure it out before then.

 

[Rucker]

Apologies for the confusion. My comments were directed to the OP not you. I'm still getting used to the new forum and how to quote.

But generally yes, I ask that question, as I did when you first posted. Your posts were lengthy, detailed, but on first read did not indicate your background. Again, apologies for leaving any negative impression.

My observation is that most folks who are new to the idea of a skoolie do not yet appreciate the work they are contemplating. I try to channel one of our other members who says 'do something, anything, but get it on the road as quickly as possible so you can really begin to have fun and learn, and see if this is for you'.

The OP indicated they were new to this, and so I do generally start any feedback with some form of 'have you considered starting out small just to get a feel for it all'.

You clearly have more experience than the average person starting out, but that is not common in this forum.

 

[Jema]

The online skoolie community advice has been soaking in, along with advice from the living-on-the-road community. I'm now leaning towards either a Sprinter type van or a 5 window short bus -- something with a drivetrain that is not purely commercial, something more readily serviceable at mechanic garages that service the individual consumer. I'm leaning more towards a van because of better fuel mileage, lower cost tires, all wheel drive options, and more availability of low-mileage vehicles. That said, the upfront cost to purchase a van is high, which makes the bus a bit more attractive, if I can find one with low mileage.

 

[Busjamin]

I'm leaning more towards a van

@Rucker Fair play.

 

[Jema]

The best way of learning is doing. Have you considered buying a van and fitting it out so you can get basic conversion experience?

Van life looks anything but basic from the internet's POV.

 

[Rucker]

Yeah, fun to scroll IG etc to see what is possible, and how people are representing their build and lifestyle. In the early days I spent a lot of time on line drooling and fantasizing, nothing wrong with that.

But as others here have more eloquently stated, the best advice (I think) is just get something and get on the road with the minimum setup. Short weekend trips, and build your vision from those experiences.

There was a guy here a few years ago who could not travel without his vinyl records, for instance. Those require some pretty careful planning, but hey, that's what floated his boat.

I did a 'medium complex' build and took two years doing it. After using the bus, there is now a new list of things I want to retrofit or add. The point is, I think, it will be very difficult to plan down to the last detail, and get it right first time, so perhaps the best approach is start simple and treat every design decision as a hypothesis to be tested.

One example from my bus is the extra complicated bedframe that folds away to allow a wheelchair. I'm glad I did it (even though we never used it for the person intended), but in retrospect I would have made it much more dirt simple than I did.

Another example was my plans for recirculating hot water to try to get around what is called the 'cold water sandwich' effect you get with instant water heaters. I had no idea how those instant water heaters worked and based my design on a simple storage water heater. Of course it didn't work! But hey, live and learn; and in that case I learned that a simple proof of concept or mockup would have saved me hours of complex design. Maybe one day I'll get back to looking at that problem, but for now I just work around it by letting the water run for a bit.

The first hurdle for many is letting go of the idea that the end product must be a vintage yellow school bus with live edge counters and an outside shower, or letting it go long enough to consider what they really are trying to accomplish with their skoolie dream.

I'll add that I just came back from a two week desert mountain biking road trip where I would have loved to take my bus but needed to focus on the riding...so I took the truck and a cot camper, but spent most nights in hotels....

 

[ewo1]

But as others here have more eloquently stated, the best advice (I think) is just get something and get on the road with the minimum setup. Short weekend trips, and build your vision from those experiences.

Very sound advice !!!

 

[AlphaHare]

My GF and I rented a couple RVs before I started designing and building. First one was a 19 foot 'compact' RV from Cruise America (Ford E350), the second one was a Dodge Ram Solis (Winnebago) conversion. It was a great way to get a feel for the experience without much investment.

Between your two platforms of interest (short bus van cutaway vs Sprinter/Ram/Ford) the biggest difference IMO is width and intended service duty. A bus can fit a queen mattress with 10" to spare with a 90" interior width, and still fits in a normal parking space. A bus will typically be rated for higher gross weight, heavier duty, and a lot of off-road aftermarket support - the vans are fundamentally lighter duty urban delivery vehicles.

The Solis somewhere in Yellowstone, the RV on BLM land south of Lee's Ferry UT....

 

[nikitis]

I did a 'medium complex' build and took two years doing it. After using the bus, there is now a new list of things I want to retrofit or add. The point is, I think, it will be very difficult to plan down to the last detail, and get it right first time, so perhaps the best approach is start simple and treat every design decision as a hypothesis to be tested.

This. It takes a complex mind to plan out every detail and get it right. Even the best laid plans of mice and men....

And if you don't get everything in your first build, you'll learn for your 2nd build!

You can sell your first bus to finance a second build and do it better next time.

 

[Busjamin]

RV on BLM land south of Lee's Ferry UT....

My first and only experience ever with an actual RV was a Cruise America rental exactly like that, in Utah! Maybe 2017. I would strongly discourage renting from Cruise America unless you want to be turned off entirely and just buy a house.

We cooked and ate Thanksgiving dinner in that sumbitch. I had always been a tent-camper but this was fun in it's own way. Ultimately I ended up wishing I had my normal camping tent and gear.

Everything about this vehicle and living space kinda sucked. A bunch of things didn't work. The finishes were all super cheap and flimsy. The beds were uncomfortable. The space was unnecessarily cramped. When we went to empty the black tank I decided... never again. For the cost of buying that exact RV new I'm pretty sure I could build you two short-buses that were better in every way.

It was a fun experiment but not a good advertisement for life on the road in my experience. Getting out there and feeling things out is great advice. Just try not to ruin it for yourself in the process

 

[Mr P]

"Reliable and easy to work on drivetrain"....

Figure out what engines are in busses. Watch several YouTube vids about each engine. There are pros and cons to all.

 

[AlphaHare]

My first and only experience ever with an actual RV was a Cruise America rental exactly like that, in Utah!

Busjamin - I totally agree with you - the RV was a cheap POS in a rental fleet. Ours worked OK, and we just considered it indoor camping with heat. I think it says everything that I'm building a bus and not looking at commercial RVs

 

[LargeMarge-TC]

Jema,
.
How is your experience working with hand-tools and power-tools?
If limited, you could probably benefit from offering to help another converter.
Or hang-out mornings in front of your local home-improvement center and hope to get ['chosed'] for day-labor.
.
How long did you live on the road?
Prior to building our ExpeditionVehicle, we full-time lived-aboard for about a half-century.
This type of hands-on experience helps determine:
.. essentials
.. do-withouts.
Over two decades full-time live-aboard in our ExpeditionVehicle, the rig is constantly evolving.
Same with us... last year's VeryImportantInnovations® are now passé.
We tried it, learned from it, then discarded it.
That happens a lot.
.
An aside:
Although ambition is admirable, a few weeks of holding tools, positioning equipment, and acquiring supplies brings a tremendous sense of accomplishment.
Just hauling the seats to recycle is a MajorTurningPoint© for some folks.

 

[Cheezewhiz]

Don't get a caterpillar motor, lol
****ing UGH

Wish I had my old detroit