Plumbing Plan

[mmoore6856]

recirculating showers are the norm in Europe but this is not the place to ask about them as lots of opinions from those that never had one. showerloop is a open source where you can get some good advice. im using a 12 volt heater set to 105 degrees and have to let it warm up but i like it and the hair gets in the first filter which is a cleanable screen. its sad that such mediocre minds will not hesitate to stomp on ideas here so dont get discouraged if i pissed anybody off well ......

 

[Rucker]

I love the idea of a recirculating shower-it's the wave of the future, probably. But at $4-6K for a 'production' solution (as reported by an Internet search of 'recirculating showers europe'), the cost is out of whack with the design requirement, as best as I can tell.

So far I've not seen any DIY setup that has worked well, thus, my opinion. The designs I've read about tend to get stuck at the price and kind of filters needed, and, well, the glop factor.

It would be fantastic to have someone describe their recirc setup, how they overcame problems, and what their real-world results are for water saving.

 

[DeMac]

Recirculating Water System

I love the idea of a recirculating shower-it's the wave of the future, probably. But at $4-6K for a 'production' solution (as reported by an Internet search of 'recirculating showers europe'), the cost is out of whack with the design requirement, as best as I can tell.

So far I've not seen any DIY setup that has worked well, thus, my opinion. The designs I've read about tend to get stuck at the price and kind of filters needed, and, well, the glop factor.

It would be fantastic to have someone describe their recirc setup, how they overcame problems, and what their real-world results are for water saving.

$4000-$6000!
For a shower ONLY?

We paid about the same amount for our entire recirculating water system.

All of our drains flow into one large tank. Most solids float or sink, so the outlet is about mid depth. From the there, the liquids travel through 50ft of perforated pipe, encased in aggregate. They then gravitate through 150ft of rock & sand before being pumped back to the surface as clean, drinkable water.

We did most of the labor ourselves. The tank, corrugated pipe, limerock, pump & well digging totaled about $7500, yet supports two showers, three toilets, four sinks AND provides drinking water supply.

Clearly, not a workable scenario for an RV, but one shower @$6k seems like a rip off, to me.

 

[MastersOfSky]

Another Plumbing Plan, feedback please

I've got a plumbing plan as well for my 38' international, see attached. tanks are 200L of fresh water, 100L blackwater, 100L gray. Let me know what I'm missing/doing right

 

[Albatross]

I've got a plumbing plan as well for my 38' international, see attached. tanks are 200L of fresh water, 100L blackwater, 100L gray. Let me know what I'm missing/doing right

So the first thing I see is more of a suggestion, and that is that I would plumb the sink on the other side of the shower to the grey tank instead of the black tank.

Something I would add (to my rig) is a flush valve that lets me push grey water through the black system to flush that side out and make sure that it's all clean before putting away the toys. It's not necessary, but it's the sort of thing that would make me feel better knowing that I'm a lot less likely to have some kind of stuff or sickness living and growing on the other side of things, and that when I hook up and dump my black, I can dump the grey immediately after without having to change anything out, and that the pipes and lines are going to be as clean as possible.

But the most noticeable thing is trying to keep all of your water on one side of your bus--that's going to leave you a bit lopsided at times; unless you're going to try and roll around with a certain amount of "ballast" in the tanks at all times.

 

[MastersOfSky]

Thanks Albatross

The sink draining to the black tank is something I copied from an RVTI textbook, the only reason I could think of why they did this is so black and gray tanks will be full at the same time? Does that make sense? Or think its something else?

My freshwater is on passenger side, back and gray drivers. Are you saying i should have gray and black on opposite sides so they "balance"?

 

[Rucker]

I've got a plumbing plan as well for my 38' international, see attached. tanks are 200L of fresh water, 100L blackwater, 100L gray. Let me know what I'm missing/doing right

Diagram looks good.

What is the purpose of the valve connecting the hot and cold line above the water heater?

I would add a feed from city water to fill the freshwater tanks.

I would also add an accumulator regardless of what the demand pump manufacturer says.

Consider mounting the pump on something other than a bulkhead or panel to prevent it acting like a subwoofer.

What model/type of water heater? Instant water heaters don't work like storage type heaters; more specifically, they require a minimum flow to operate, so they don't 'mix' in faucets as expected.

I recommend mocking up the supply side and testing it before permanently installing anything.

 

[Albatross]

Thanks Albatross

The sink draining to the black tank is something I copied from an RVTI textbook, the only reason I could think of why they did this is so black and gray tanks will be full at the same time? Does that make sense? Or think its something else?

My freshwater is on passenger side, back and gray drivers. Are you saying i should have gray and black on opposite sides so they "balance"?

Okay.

There's a bunch of reasons for that, potentially, and I'd rather not try to explore them all out here.

Freshwater wasn't shown on the diagram, just propane, and it didn't make a whole lot of sense. Keeping your clean water on the passenger and your dirty water on the driver's just means that you'll list to the passenger side going out and the driver's side coming in. Honestly the best way to do things is to get long tanks (with baffles) and position them so that you've got black at the back in the centerline, then grey moving forward, and then freshwater to the front. Unfortunately, there are these annoying things like frame rails, axles, exhaust, and other things that tend to get in the way of "good engineering". So instead we do the best that we can.

I wouldn't worry that much about the weight though, you're only looking at about 420 lbs (191Kg) of freshwater and half that each for grey & black--realistically less, though, since wastewater tends to be less dense than freshwater.

 

[HamSkoolie]

I've got a plumbing plan as well for my 38' international, see attached. tanks are 200L of fresh water, 100L blackwater, 100L gray. Let me know what I'm missing/doing right

Issues I see in your plan:


No check valve to the fresh tanks to prevent pressurizing them and/or overflow when on city water unless you manually close the valve from the fresh tanks. Not a problem until you forget to close that valve when hooking up city water. Not sure how to address that the best way but it would be a concern. I would probably put a one way check valve in the existing drawing in addition to the current fresh supply shutoff close to the fresh supply AND install a manual valve to route city water to the tank should you wish to fill tanks from city water. More fool proof but a tiny bit more work to fill would be to design for ONLY filling fresh tanks by gravity which would necessitate moving the city connection to the gravity fill when departing a city connection.


You should have shut off valves for EACH end point for each line (hot and cold) so that should a single end point fail (toilet, a sink, shower) you can turn off that one supply (both sides) and maintain the rest of the system in working order. You may have that planned but simply didn't include them for simplicity but I wanted to mention it.


Depending on the "mission" of your rig..... any boondocking in the plan?... 200 liters fresh isn't a lot. We're planning 200 gallons fresh (nearly 760 liters) but we are planning for boondocking with our 40' RE. Our black will be 230 liters and ONLY receive from the toilet. Gray is planned for 280 liters and reclaimed through filtration to a 110 liter "reclaimed" tank that will supply the shower, clothes washer, and toilet for maximum efficiency. Sizing of supply and waste is highly dependent upon the parameters of how YOU plan to use your build (with some consideration given to end of use sale depending on your situation)



Keep in mind, volume wise, your black tank is going to have "stuff" added into the mix (toilet paper and waste) so total waste volume should be a bit larger than total fresh.


It's something of a balancing act between how long you want to stay out and how long your tankage will support that. But you're on the right track with planning and asking for input.



As for all fresh on one side and all black/gray on the other, with only 200 liters fresh it's about the same as 4 or 5 kids more on one side of the bus or the other.