Portable power vs house batteries? Why not?

[La Camioneta]

Looking at our needs, scalability, and utilization outside the bus I'm really wondering why not use portable power(s) instead of a permanently mounted house bank system? Are the portable units that much more expensive than a house bank, once you add labor, mounting, wiring, etc. costs?

We will be using the bus to tour, not live in for any period of time. Being able to utilize those assets elsewhere is a big plus. Saves a huge amount of time guessing where we want outlets and running permanent wiring everywhere.

A big unit like a Delta Max or Yeti to run fridge and water pump for a couple days and then 2-3 smaller units to run hair dryer and other small needs? Generator will run for A/C anyway, can charge pp units at the same time. If they crap out before warrantee, send back for replacement.

 

[Hutchy-SKO]

look at the rich solar unit. https://richsolar.com/collections/power-stations/products/x1500-lithium-portable-power-station
unless you want to run stuff over 1000w you can't really beat it's bang for the buck. also check out will prowse on youtube he's really knowledgable about solar and all the electrical

 

[cadillackid]

look at the rich solar unit. https://richsolar.com/collections/power-stations/products/x1500-lithium-portable-power-station
unless you want to run stuff over 1000w you can't really beat it's bang for the buck. also check out will prowse on youtube he's really knowledgable about solar and all the electrical

I saw these a while back and the only thing that turned me off was 160 watt wall charger.. means it takes nearly 10 hours to charge on shore power if you kill it.

 

[PhilipE-SKO]

Your solution could work. For a bus I would look at how your setting it up. Are you planing on using all 110 volt house appliances to need that much 110 volt?

For the cost of the power max bank. That amount would let you build for all 12 volt and propane.

 

[TheHubbardBus]

Can't say I've ever done the math on that problem (once you add in wiring, mounting, etc.) But I imagine there are scenarios where portable packs make more sense ecomically.

I'm a big fan of designing in a manner that allows you to start 'small', but scale up later if the need/desire arises. My concern in your situation would be "what if I decide later I want centralized power?". Will you easily be able to add wiring/outlets/stationary power down the road without tearing out everything you've built? Is this ever going to be something you may need? If so, what could you do now to prepare (set aside space, empty conduit runs, etc).

 

[cadillackid]

Can't say I've ever done the math on that problem (once you add in wiring, mounting, etc.) But I imagine there are scenarios where portable packs make more sense ecomically.

I'm a big fan of designing in a manner that allows you to start 'small', but scale up later if the need/desire arises. My concern in your situation would be "what if I decide later I want centralized power?". Will you easily be able to add wiring/outlets/stationary power down the road without tearing out everything you've built? Is this ever going to be something you may need? If so, what could you do now to prepare (set aside space, empty conduit runs, etc).

the main draw to a portable pack would be if you want power away from the bus or if you use multiple travel methods.. ie if you sometimes drive the bus and camp or if you sometimes drive your car / truck and tent camp then you could take the portable pack form vehicle to vehicle. the one linked is almost 40 lbs so you arent going to carry it put backpacking or mountain biking but in a car no issue.

 

[La Camioneta]

Your solution could work. For a bus I would look at how your setting it up. Are you planing on using all 110 volt house appliances to need that much 110 volt?

For the cost of the power max bank. That amount would let you build for all 12 volt and propane.

More or less doing the rolling motel room for events and travel. Medium sized fridge, small micro, propane water heat and cooking. Won't be living aboard and when we need laundry or a break just do the hotel thing.

Neither of us are hikers or bikers and just want to be comfortable wherever we are and not rushed from checkout to checkout.

 

[La Camioneta]

Can't say I've ever done the math on that problem (once you add in wiring, mounting, etc.) But I imagine there are scenarios where portable packs make more sense ecomically.

I'm a big fan of designing in a manner that allows you to start 'small', but scale up later if the need/desire arises. My concern in your situation would be "what if I decide later I want centralized power?". Will you easily be able to add wiring/outlets/stationary power down the road without tearing out everything you've built? Is this ever going to be something you may need? If so, what could you do now to prepare (set aside space, empty conduit runs, etc).

I'm a LSS Black Belt, and am doing exactly this. A pilot program, if you will. We're designing a unique and comfortable way to travel, not to spend weeks or months onboard. More like an entertainer coach for 5 max, but typically 2.
I only intend on enclosing the incinolet stall to begin with, and leaving the inside unfinished until the chicken bus refurb.

In the unlikely event we decide we need to live aboard, we'd get a big motor coach and be done with it.

you arent going to carry it put backpacking or mountain biking but in a car no issue.

Very little danger of either of those happening, Mr. Kid!

 

[turf]

i've been pretty impressed by some of the new battery packs, but i'll plant my flag in the house battery camp.

the size and cost of new lithium iron batteries is now that... why not?

a chinese 200AH lithium battery + inverter is cheaper than half that size of a jackery.

for less than $1k, you can have a big ass battery bank. not sure what the jackerys are but i know they are proud of them.

 

[La Camioneta]

Guess it'd save me a few coins to make my own - any threads you'd recommend with well-designed house banks?

 

[cadillackid]

i've been pretty impressed by some of the new battery packs, but i'll plant my flag in the house battery camp.

the size and cost of new lithium iron batteries is now that... why not?

a chinese 200AH lithium battery + inverter is cheaper than half that size of a jackery.

for less than $1k, you can have a big ass battery bank. not sure what the jackerys are but i know they are proud of them.

Jackery is definitely a LOT more.. I think its like 1700 for a 1500 wH jackery
its Only advantage is 250 watt wall charger vs 160. if charging with solar thats a non issue.



the thing im interested to know is if you can use the device while its being charged vio DC.. I'd like something portable for my red bus that would allow me to draw some power but would charge when im driving the bus.. either by 12V direct or a wall charger on the 500 watt Powewr inverter the bus has..



I have a small power pack that works great EXCEPT all of its outputs get turned off as soon as you plug in the Input .. so you can use it or charge it but not both at once.. thats a deal killer for me.

 

[TheHubbardBus]

Jackery is definitely a LOT more.. I think its like 1700 for a 1500 wH jackery
its Only advantage is 250 watt wall charger vs 160. if charging with solar thats a non issue.

I disagree, Christopher. Seems that if you want a Jackery for free all you gotta do is start a YouTube channel and they throw one at you. That's a pretty big advantage :biggrin:

 

[cadillackid]

I disagree, Christopher. Seems that if you want a Jackery for free all you gotta do is start a YouTube channel and they throw one at you. That's a pretty big advantage :biggrin:

ha!! I didnt know anything aboutthat but hey if you can get a free jackery I say Go for it.. Free == Good!

 

[HamSkoolie]

look at the rich solar unit. https://richsolar.com/collections/power-stations/products/x1500-lithium-portable-power-station
unless you want to run stuff over 1000w you can't really beat it's bang for the buck. also check out will prowse on youtube he's really knowledgable about solar and all the electrical

That's 1 or 1.5kWh (their spec sheet says 1500/1000) at a cost of $1000. For $1500 you can get a 19" rack mount (appx 19 x 19 x 6.5") 5.12kWh Lithium battery. Toss in a couple hundred for an inverter and you have 4 or 5 times the capacity and can charge in 4 hours if you have the incoming power available.

More or less doing the rolling motel room for events and travel. Medium sized fridge, small micro, propane water heat and cooking. Won't be living aboard and when we need laundry or a break just do the hotel thing.
Neither of us are hikers or bikers and just want to be comfortable wherever we are and not rushed from checkout to checkout.

You'll be exhausting the piddly capacity of of the so called "solar generators" and jackeries. You need to calculate the needs of the fridge, microwave, lights, computer charging, phone charging, Coffee maker, etc. and you'll see really quick that 1kWh isn't much and won't last long.

You said a "mid size fridge".... well a regular house fridge is in the neighborhood of 0.85 to 1.0 kWh per day so figure at least 500 watts a day for that fridge and likely more. 6 minutes of a 1000W microwave is another 100W. Use the hair drier for 6 minutes and you've got another 100W. that's 800W plus another 80 for inefficiencies for 880W and you haven't charged a phone or laptop yet, turned on a light, or run a fan.
You need to do a complete systems evaluation accounting for every electrical device you'll use on the system..... lap top, tablet, and phone charging. Appliances like microwave, hair drier, coffee pot, refrigerator. How many watts they pull, how many hours they'll run in a 24 or 48 hour period (do you want any extra capacity for cloudy days (solar down), a couple of days before grid power or firing up the generator), etc. Don't forget to factor in the losses in charging as well as the inverter when converting to 110/120 and parasitic losses....the wall wart for your laptop or phone pulls power whenever it is plugged into an outlet whether something is being charged or not. Same with USB ports...they have parasitic draws.
Figure out your daily requirement including to account for inefficiency losses. Then multiply that by your desired number of days between full recharge, figure your solar contributions if any, again factoring inefficiencies. 100W panels only give 100W in lab conditions, charge controllers have losses, there are losses in the lines, and there are losses inside the batteries as they charge.

 

[Rucker]

Guess it'd save me a few coins to make my own - any threads you'd recommend with well-designed house banks?

Search Will Prowse on Youtube-he has the most accessible. Also rolling living has done a pretty nice three or four part DIY 280 amp hour LiFePo system.

 

[La Camioneta]

That's 1 or 1.5kWh (their spec sheet says 1500/1000) at a cost of $1000. For $1500 you can get a 19" rack mount (appx 19 x 19 x 6.5") 5.12kWh Lithium battery. Toss in a couple hundred for an inverter and you have 4 or 5 times the capacity and can charge in 4 hours if you have the incoming power available.



You'll be exhausting the piddly capacity of of the so called "solar generators" and jackeries. You need to calculate the needs of the fridge, microwave, lights, computer charging, phone charging, Coffee maker, etc. and you'll see really quick that 1kWh isn't much and won't last long.

You said a "mid size fridge".... well a regular house fridge is in the neighborhood of 0.85 to 1.0 kWh per day so figure at least 500 watts a day for that fridge and likely more. 6 minutes of a 1000W microwave is another 100W. Use the hair drier for 6 minutes and you've got another 100W. that's 800W plus another 80 for inefficiencies for 880W and you haven't charged a phone or laptop yet, turned on a light, or run a fan.
You need to do a complete systems evaluation accounting for every electrical device you'll use on the system..... lap top, tablet, and phone charging. Appliances like microwave, hair drier, coffee pot, refrigerator. How many watts they pull, how many hours they'll run in a 24 or 48 hour period (do you want any extra capacity for cloudy days (solar down), a couple of days before grid power or firing up the generator), etc. Don't forget to factor in the losses in charging as well as the inverter when converting to 110/120 and parasitic losses....the wall wart for your laptop or phone pulls power whenever it is plugged into an outlet whether something is being charged or not. Same with USB ports...they have parasitic draws.
Figure out your daily requirement including to account for inefficiency losses. Then multiply that by your desired number of days between full recharge, figure your solar contributions if any, again factoring inefficiencies. 100W panels only give 100W in lab conditions, charge controllers have losses, there are losses in the lines, and there are losses inside the batteries as they charge.

Mind blown.

Guess I'll be in the lithium rack camp. I will have to find out what that is exactly, tbh.
Call me a heretic, but no plans for solar, just running a generator that'll handle the a/c and charging the house batteries.

 

[cadillackid]

how much do you really save by the time you put everything thats in a portable power station into your own build? a BMS, an Inverter, the ability to charge at multiple voltages.. im sure you save some..



I think these are the idea if you want to be more mobile and arent trying to power a houseful of stuff.. if you are powering Household items like fridges and TV's and built in lighting and want solar it makes a lot of sense to build your own system that meets the needs.. but for portable or powering things and being able to take something indoors to charge.. or you want something to charge your tools while working on your bus.. or in my case something wherre I can go Bus to bus and power my internet systems...



in my DEV bnus I have a built in AGM system that works great but nothing in my Red bus and I definitely dont want to mod My Superior.. and when the fishbowl is running same thing.. something like this where it appears chargeable while running, can be charged from a portable solar panel or from a 12 volt Vehicle while driving.. (Bluetti's own website confirmed you can get output from it at the same time while charging it. )..


Bluetti's sells them $100 cheaper but maybe shipping cost more I havent looked yet.



Bluetti also includes a 200 watt wall charger instead of a 160..



https://www.bluettipower.com/products/bluetti-eb150-1500wh-1000w-portable-power-station

 

[cadillackid]

apparently therse things are sold under every name possible and different prices..


https://www.amazon.com/MAXOAK-Portable-Generator-Emergency-Sinewave/dp/B07QZC1FV3?th=1

 

[La Camioneta]

Struggling with power source.

Want the Honda 7000 inverter but strongly believe it will walk off.

Kubota lowboy looks great but seems way too loud.

There are a couple used Onan QDs in KY and a permanent mount will probably have to be it.

Looked at Ham's second bus setup with L/A batteries and wondering if just enough AGM to run a fridge overnight or a day would be enough. By the time I get into a rack system I could buy a lot of diesel.

 

[PhilipE-SKO]

Any type of generator setting on the ground can walk off at night. Look at under mount generators.

I would be looking at a 2 or 3 way RV refer unit. It can run off shore power, 12 volt or propane. Those turn up a lot on the used market. That takes a big load off the 120 usage. On those style of units the MFG's have special frame out spec's for the cabinet. Follow the MFG's recommendations

The less you depend on AC power the smaller the generator you need.