Portable power vs house batteries? Why not?

[TheHubbardBus]

I would be looking at a 2 or 3 way RV refer unit. It can run off shore power, 12 volt or propane.

You're the first person I've ever (virtually, or otherwise) met who recommended one of those fridges, Philip. Most people seem to have a negative view of them. I take it your experience has been a positive?

Between their inherent inefficiency, problems/limitations/dangers with propane operation, and general quality of manufacture, we wrote those off our possibility list early on.

 

[cadillackid]

I used to see a lot of people write up about converting chest freezers into Fridges.. they ran very little and when you open them they dont lose much of their cool.. is the reason people dont like them because you have to open from the top? seems if running on batteries anything well insulated and not emptying all its cool when opened would be a good thing..

 

[peakbus]

A friend of mine bought a Bluetti portable power system. It has a comparable amount of capacity to the system I built, but it came in a box and was ready to go. And, like mentioned previously, He can take it elsewhere to use- such as when the power goes out at home. I might have considered this type of system, had I known.

 

[PhilipE-SKO]

You're the first person I've ever (virtually, or otherwise) met who recommended one of those fridges, Philip. Most people seem to have a negative view of them. I take it your experience has been a positive?

Between their inherent inefficiency, problems/limitations/dangers with propane operation, and general quality of manufacture, we wrote those off our possibility list early on.

My experience is from a person that worked on them. If you let a unit set for a long time unpowered. The ammonia inside is a jelly. It settles to the bottom and doesn't want to move after settling. Take it out flip it over. Let it set for a couple of days. Turn it right side up. Power it up and it will work.

All the issues you see posted are by owners parking the RV and shutting all power sources off to the unit. "Leave the unit powered at all times". Now a RV place will never tell you that. They like spring time repeat customers for a new fridge because the owner powered down the unit. Then the RV place does what I stated and resells it as a used unit.

BTW the RV place just tells the owner there is no way to service the unit. Which there isn't. Its broke we can't fix it. The system is very simple it takes very little for it to function. Just a little heat.

 

[peakbus]

You're the first person I've ever (virtually, or otherwise) met who recommended one of those fridges, Philip. Most people seem to have a negative view of them. I take it your experience has been a positive?

Between their inherent inefficiency, problems/limitations/dangers with propane operation, and general quality of manufacture, we wrote those off our possibility list early on.

I had one in an A-frame trailer and it was great! Ran it on propane when parked and driving with no issues. I went all 12v in my bus as I'm not running propane.

 

[TheHubbardBus]

Thanks Phillip, Peak. It's always great to hear differing perspectives. Learn something new every day

 

[HamSkoolie]

My experience is from a person that worked on them. If you let a unit set for a long time unpowered. The ammonia inside is a jelly.

If the ammonia turns to jelly there's something weird going on.
Ammonia refrigeration systems utilize LIQUID ammonia and depend upon the evaporation and condensation of that liquid to produce heat transfer in the evaporator and condenser. The beauty of the system is that there are no moving parts in simple systems. No compressors, no fans, no pumps.... just a small pilot light sized flame and a sealed refrigerant system.
I've done HVAC systems in homes, autos, and RV's since the mid 80's. NEVER have I seen jellied ammonia.

 

[cadillackid]

If the ammonia turns to jelly there's something weird going on.
Ammonia refrigeration systems utilize LIQUID ammonia and depend upon the evaporation and condensation of that liquid to produce heat transfer in the evaporator and condenser. The beauty of the system is that there are no moving parts in simple systems. No compressors, no fans, no pumps.... just a small pilot light sized flame and a sealed refrigerant system.
I've done HVAC systems in homes, autos, and RV's since the mid 80's. NEVER have I seen jellied ammonia.

I have never seen Jelly ammonia either.. I suppose it could happen if the system got a leak while it was mothballed? but then we didnt service any residential ammonia systems (and I didnt get certified to do commercial ammonia).. we replaced a fre that had sprung leaks (replaced with standard systems)..

 

[Ronnie-SKO]

The Onan QD generators are really nice. I have one on a railroad car. With all you plan to power this is likely what I would do.



About half gallon an hour fuel usage at light load, one gallon an hour or so at full power.

 

[La Camioneta]

The Onan QD generators are really nice. I have one on a railroad car. With all you plan to power this is likely what I would do.



About half gallon an hour fuel usage at light load, one gallon an hour or so at full power.

Gonna need to hear the story about having a railroad car, please.

Also - what's the oil change interval on the QD?

 

[Ronnie-SKO]

Found this car unrestored sitting at the end of track in West Virginia. The railroad was being scrapped and it was left behind, so it was given to us. Took 8 years to restore. It is on loan to a railroad museum that we are part of.
wsrr.org is the website for the railroad.

 

[HamSkoolie]

The Onan QD generators are really nice. I have one on a railroad car. With all you plan to power this is likely what I would do.
About half gallon an hour fuel usage at light load, one gallon an hour or so at full power.

1/2 gallon/hour is 12 gallons/day. At today's diesel prices that's $60/day or $1800 month.....OUCH


I JUST (in the last hour) ordered 10.24kWh of lithium with BMS, built in LCD screen, CAN and RS485 communication, and about 202 pounds 20x20x14" total space required.


Batteries (two rack units at 5.12kWh ea
40 amp charger
Computer comm cable


$3,940 delivered to the local FedEx yard


Now we need some panels, charge controllers, and a Victron multiplex

 

[Rucker]

You're the first person I've ever (virtually, or otherwise) met who recommended one of those fridges, Philip. Most people seem to have a negative view of them. I take it your experience has been a positive?

Between their inherent inefficiency, problems/limitations/dangers with propane operation, and general quality of manufacture, we wrote those off our possibility list early on.

Those propane fridges are surprisingly efficient. I recoil from the thought of heating to get cold, but the laws of physics are still valid.

Those units are expensive, and I probably wouldn't buy one used.

 

[turf]

1/2 gallon/hour is 12 gallons/day. At today's diesel prices that's $60/day or $1800 month.....OUCH

nothing against solar, but i boondocked for 6 months or so waiting for an electric line put in where i was parked at. just gen and battery.

the gen ran between 2-4 hours a day. generally an hour ish in the morning when i cooked breakfast and again at night when i cooked dinner. that made it through November to April in the Colorado high country.

i was running about 30 gallons of diesel a week. count the diesel heater as part of that use too. my employer paid for the diesel.

 

[La Camioneta]

1/2 gallon/hour is 12 gallons/day. At today's diesel prices that's $60/day or $1800 month.....OUCH


I JUST (in the last hour) ordered 10.24kWh of lithium with BMS, built in LCD screen, CAN and RS485 communication, and about 202 pounds 20x20x14" total space required.


Batteries (two rack units at 5.12kWh ea
40 amp charger
Computer comm cable


$3,940 delivered to the local FedEx yard


Now we need some panels, charge controllers, and a Victron multiplex

I think the wife won't be good for more than a week excursion at a time.

Our problem is the Georgia summers, which last most of the year and having to run 30k of A/C, constantly and being able to be self-contained. Used genset, mounting, fuel tankage, wiring and 2 roof a/c's will be $10k+. That'll get us started and we can decide if we even like the skoolie, and what power upgrades we would need from there.

 

[cadillackid]

1/2 gallon/hour is 12 gallons/day. At today's diesel prices that's $60/day or $1800 month.....OUCH


I JUST (in the last hour) ordered 10.24kWh of lithium with BMS, built in LCD screen, CAN and RS485 communication, and about 202 pounds 20x20x14" total space required.


Batteries (two rack units at 5.12kWh ea
40 amp charger
Computer comm cable


$3,940 delivered to the local FedEx yard


Now we need some panels, charge controllers, and a Victron multiplex

thats gonna be a nice setup!!! RS485 / CAN a plus.. you can piut a monitor screen where its convenient.

 

[HamSkoolie]

Our problem is the Georgia summers, which last most of the year and having to run 30k of A/C, constantly and being able to be self-contained. Used genset, mounting, fuel tankage, wiring and 2 roof a/c's will be $10k+. That'll get us started and we can decide if we even like the skoolie, and what power upgrades we would need from there.

We don't plan to spend a lot of time in the desert or in high humidity locals but we're planning for them.

I've been in LA, TN, MS, DC, VA in high humidity and IT SUCKS.
I've been in the Mohave desert, Yuma, Barstow, 29 Stumps, an IT SUCKS.
I've also been to Camp Ripley MN, in February, in a TENT, 29F below, 60F below with the wind chill AND IT SUCKS.


We are insulating with spray foam. 1.5" on the ceiling and 2.5 or so in the walls. All but 5 windows being eliminated (though we have large coach windows). Entire roof top will be covered with solar and decking to provide an air gap to reduce solar heating and reduce the effects of the elements on the watertight roof. AND the underside will consist of wheel to wheel, side to side coverage to reduce heat transfer through the insulated floor and provide major storage space (if there is any room left after the insulated and heated tanks).
We will have two 9000 BTU mini splits, two diesel parking heaters, backup propane Mr Buddy heater, engine coolant heater (dash and one near the bathroom for when we're underway), backup 110vac portable heater (emergency use), 110vac queen electric mattress pad for sleeping (surprisingly efficient and comfy), and a wood stove is desired if we can still insure when that time comes.
Lots of heating options, redundant cooling, and the ability to run the genset in worst case conditions.
It sounds like uber redundant on heat because it is. I was tasked with making the build comfortable inside in any environment we might find ourselves in. Like broken down in Alaska or the desert.

thats gonna be a nice setup!!! RS485 / CAN a plus.. you can piut a monitor screen where its convenient.

It will also end up with BlueTooth via the Victron components. We're putting a lot of money into the solar, batteries, and associated components but figure they will probably outlast us. The batteries are waranted to retain 80% capacity after 7000 cycles to 80% DOD. That's 19 years!!!!!! Pretty awesome for 202 pounds of battery with 10.24kWh storage!!!!!

 

[Justinb.jackson903]

Honestly, I'm still looking around at solar power for mine. That being said though with my experience of home construction and all. It is a solid idea that should at least work in theory, but a couple of things to consider is 1) size of the battery bank and solar panels. for houses solar power banks and panels tend to be a lot larger so you may be able to mount it all on the bus but you may lose a bit of functionality in the sense that you would have to work around it or design around because it all takes up space that you nor other items can occupy. 2) weight of overall system all buses like all cars have weight limits and you have to consider the weight of the system added in with the weight of you and others plus everything and the weight of the bus. when doing these builds you have to consider the GVWR and GCWR and if long enough GAWR on front and the GAWR on the rear axles (sometimes they're different like mine is 11k in the front and 19k in the rear) basically eveerything that comes in adds weight and exceeding the GVWR and GCWR will break your vehicle let alone if you go to the max on it. it will work the bus could handle it but it will wear your bus down quicker

 

[cadillackid]

We don't plan to spend a lot of time in the desert or in high humidity locals but we're planning for them.

I've been in LA, TN, MS, DC, VA in high humidity and IT SUCKS.
I've been in the Mohave desert, Yuma, Barstow, 29 Stumps, an IT SUCKS.
I've also been to Camp Ripley MN, in February, in a TENT, 29F below, 60F below with the wind chill AND IT SUCKS.


We are insulating with spray foam. 1.5" on the ceiling and 2.5 or so in the walls. All but 5 windows being eliminated (though we have large coach windows). Entire roof top will be covered with solar and decking to provide an air gap to reduce solar heating and reduce the effects of the elements on the watertight roof. AND the underside will consist of wheel to wheel, side to side coverage to reduce heat transfer through the insulated floor and provide major storage space (if there is any room left after the insulated and heated tanks).
We will have two 9000 BTU mini splits, two diesel parking heaters, backup propane Mr Buddy heater, engine coolant heater (dash and one near the bathroom for when we're underway), backup 110vac portable heater (emergency use), 110vac queen electric mattress pad for sleeping (surprisingly efficient and comfy), and a wood stove is desired if we can still insure when that time comes.
Lots of heating options, redundant cooling, and the ability to run the genset in worst case conditions.
It sounds like uber redundant on heat because it is. I was tasked with making the build comfortable inside in any environment we might find ourselves in. Like broken down in Alaska or the desert.



It will also end up with BlueTooth via the Victron components. We're putting a lot of money into the solar, batteries, and associated components but figure they will probably outlast us. The batteries are waranted to retain 80% capacity after 7000 cycles to 80% DOD. That's 19 years!!!!!! Pretty awesome for 202 pounds of battery with 10.24kWh storage!!!!!

just remember bluetooth is a weak transmission.. Ive found with my Victron stuff that for monitoring I can be a decent distamce from it.. (it in the back of the bus me in front).. but thats with the modules not being in enclosed cabinets with multiple ;ayers between my phone / tablet and the devices..



for firmware updates i have to be right on top of the devices or the updates take forever or fail.



so just make sure your victron stuff is accessible where you can stand next to it openly for updating the firmware from your phone / tablet and you will be fine.

 

[Veloc]

So - has anyone considered the solar awning? Folds up over the top of the bus for travel, panels face each other with a nice, solid fiberglass panel facing the highway winds. Arrive at your campsite, fold it over and BAM! Nice partial solid awning with TWO bus roof's worth of solar panels providing the juice. Weight would be something to look at, as well as overall height, but with a fold and lock fiberglass panel over the top the actual bracketry holding the panels in place would not need to be quite as hefty since they won't have to fight the wind. You just need them strong enough to not go flying in an accident. A solid front with a steel support beam across the top overlaying each set of panels would keep the panels from flying off the bus in a wreck while providing underside rigidity when the panels were deployed.

Would take some designing to make it work right, but if it wasn't too heavy I could see it being worthwhile.