Possible blown fuse or dead ecm?

[Mollymolasses]

I have a 2002 bluebird all american fe with a rear engine. 5.9 cummins allison md3060.

As we parked it a few days again we snagged a small tree and attempted to power past it. After a few mild revs and no movement on our end I shut her down and got out to take a look and reassess. Every thing looked fine, nothing has been damaged by this sapling. When I went to start her back up it was a no go. The brake, parking brake and signal lights(turn signal arrows, they stay solid not flashing) all come on with a small beeping alarm and they do not shutoff even when power is turned off and key is removed. When powered up there is no wts light, none of the normal engine check lights and no light on the transmission pad. The engine does not turn over but I do not believe it is the starter, we just replaced it and it was doing great.

It has been two days now, we have checked all the fuses and relays we can find but nothing seems to have blown so Im beginning to believe it may be the ecm? Does that sound right, also how do I tell once found if the ecm is faulty? Or if anybody recognizes the issue Ill take any help I can get

 

[TheHubbardBus]

So the bus is running / working fine, you make contact with a tree, and then all these problems show up? If that's a correct statement, it sounds like the tree is fairly likely to be part of the equation.

Exactly what part of the bus made contact with the tree? Any possibility it or anything else levered up by it made contact with any of your wiring / connectors under the bus and/or in the engine compartment?

 

[Mollymolasses]

No its more like a bush that hasnt been trimmed in 20 years. The back passenger side wheels are resting against it right now, the only things the branches themselves have likely made contact with would be our water tanks. We cut away the scruff to get a better look around the wheel just to make sure but everything looks to be in place. Im more concerned the revving did something I guess. This has been our first distance trip and we drove 5.5 hrs that day to get to richmond. In the last 30 minutes of the drive the bus was struggling to gain speed until it hit about 28mph and then it climb right up so there was possibly a transmission issue that was exasperated when we tried to push over the bush?

 

[TheHubbardBus]

In the last 30 minutes of the drive the bus was struggling to gain speed until it hit about 28mph and then it climb right up so there was possibly a transmission issue that was exasperated when we tried to push over the bush?

Did any indicator lights (like the trans light) come on when you experienced this struggling.
I agree... that particular issue could be transmission / heat related. And if so it definitely could have been exacerbated by trying to overcome the bush.

But if that was the case, I can't fathom how it could cause the problems you're describing. Why would a tranny problem cause electrical issues like you describe?

Our bus never had any interlocks or other devices that prevented it from starting/running unless a given condition was met (like a door closed, etc). So I don't know much about them. But I'd think it at least possible that would be one of the few things that might explain the lights/buzzer with the ignition key removed. Otherwise that puzzles me. Plenty of people here very familiar with them, though, so stand-by for those more knowledgable.

So what are you doing to keep the battery from being drained?

 

[ewo1]

. When powered up there is no wts light, none of the normal engine check lights and no light on the transmission pad. The engine does not turn over but I do not believe it is the starter, we just replaced it and it was doing great.

No lights on the transmission pad ??? Are you talking about the tranny push pad selector ?

When you turn the key to the “on” position, not start position, does the push pad stay dark ?

If the answer is YES then the bus will not even crank over.
The push pad needs to see B+ voltage in order to communicate with the tranny computer which in turn communicates with both the VIM and engine ECU.

First thing I would do is go under the rear of the bus and look for you tranny computer. Make sure the bush did not grab onto and dislodge the connector on the TCU.
That should be on the passenger side of the bus real close to the tranny, at least on my Amtran that is where it is.

Next, on the driver side, on the tranny itsel, you will see a cable that goes into the tranny. Six inches away you’ll find two round connectors. One of those connectors goes into a “y” cable. One of those legs is the cable that goes to the push pad on the dash.
In my bus I found 2 broken wires, broken inside the connector itself.

You should find the 5 volts there that the push pad needs to turn on.

Also, check the fuse tor the tcu. Mine is located in the battery box. Not sure where it is on a Bluebird.

Some background info on what I have done to diagnose and fix this problem -> https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f33/md3060-dead-dark-shift-panel-24837.html

 

[Jolly Roger bus 223]

the forum is throwing alot of stuff at you.
but we still dont know exacly what you have to work on.
limb damage on bus body creating a tranny issue not likely unless you drove over tree limbs bigger than a twig and i wouldnt rule out a twig if was still connected to a small branch.
it happens.

 

[Mollymolasses]

No lights on the transmission pad ??? Are you talking about the tranny push pad selector ?

When you turn the key to the “on” position, not start position, does the push pad stay dark ?

If the answer is YES then the bus will not even crank over.
The push pad needs to see B+ voltage in order to communicate with the tranny computer which in turn communicates with both the VIM and engine ECU.

First thing I would do is go under the rear of the bus and look for you tranny computer. Make sure the bush did not grab onto and dislodge the connector on the TCU.
That should be on the passenger side of the bus real close to the tranny, at least on my Amtran that is where it is.

Next, on the driver side, on the tranny itsel, you will see a cable that goes into the tranny. Six inches away you’ll find two round connectors. One of those connectors goes into a “y” cable. One of those legs is the cable that goes to the push pad on the dash.
In my bus I found 2 broken wires, broken inside the connector itself.

You should find the 5 volts there that the push pad needs to turn on.

Also, check the fuse tor the tcu. Mine is located in the battery box. Not sure where it is on a Bluebird.

Some background info on what I have done to diagnose and fix this problem -> https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f33/md3060-dead-dark-shift-panel-24837.html

I am talking about the tranny push pad selector and yes it stays dark and the engine will not crank. I am about to get under and look for the TCU, do you by chance have a photo of yours so I can have a better idea of what Im looking for.

I have ran the length of wires from the tranny push pad selector to the transmission itself and those all seem fine but next on the list I may have to open up the connector itself. I also will hunt down the tcu fuse.

 

[ewo1]

I am talking about the tranny push pad selector and yes it stays dark and the engine will not crank. I am about to get under and look for the TCU, do you by chance have a photo of yours so I can have a better idea of what Im looking for.

I have ran the length of wires from the tranny push pad selector to the transmission itself and those all seem fine but next on the list I may have to open up the connector itself. I also will hunt down the tcu fuse.

Take a look at post #20 in that thread/link that I gave you.

You need to do a physical continuity test on the cable that goes from the tranny to the push pad.

It is not uncommon for a wire to “strees brake” inside the cable or for the pins to corrode.

You push pad is “dark” because it is not seeing the b+ voltage.

Printout the diagrams I uploaded in that thread, it will give you a better understanding on what you need to do next.

 

[ewo1]

I was thinking this in my mind but I failed to put it down in writing….

Very first thing you need to do is look in the battery box.
Do you have a smaller wire both on the positive and negative terminals? No the battery cables but some 10 ga wires?
Is there a fuse on the wire coming from the positive wire?

If so, check that fuse, could be your tcu fuse.
Fools those two wires to see where they are connected and check for power again on the far side, away from the battery to make sure the wire itself is not damaged.

 

[Mollymolasses]

So I have traced the battery wires through after removing and cleaning everything. There is no fuse on any of the lines. Followed the transmission lines all the way to the deutcsh connector that locks onto the transmission and comes back off and leads to some sorts of housing box. Currently trying to get into the housing box as I imagine that is where the tcu/valve body may be housed. Like I said all wires lead into there and there is no sign of a tcu unit anywhere else. There are 5 bolts, 3 on top and 2 on the side holding the housing on but 4 of the 5 bolts are corroded beyond socket use. Used some cleaners on them and scrubbed plenty but no luck yet.
In the search did find an error code on the abs module for the front left sensor so some time has been spent on that as well as Im sure it is the root of the acceleration problems I previously mentioned.

 

[Mollymolasses]

Double post, sorry. Please delete

 

[ewo1]

So I have traced the battery wires through after removing and cleaning everything. There is no fuse on any of the lines. Followed the transmission lines all the way to the deutcsh connector that locks onto the transmission and comes back off and leads to some sorts of housing box. Currently trying to get into the housing box as I imagine that is where the tcu/valve body may be housed. Like I said all wires lead into there and there is no sign of a tcu unit anywhere else. There are 5 bolts, 3 on top and 2 on the side holding the housing on but 4 of the 5 bolts are corroded beyond socket use. Used some cleaners on them and scrubbed plenty but no luck yet.
In the search did find an error code on the abs module for the front left sensor so some time has been spent on that as well as Im sure it is the root of the acceleration problems I previously mentioned.

In order to help you out better, could you please post 2 pics.
One of the top of your batteries so we can see the wires and, two, a pic of the housing box you talking about.’

Follow this link, ithis is what your TCU/ECU looks like.
Identify the location of this on your bus.

https://www.vanderhaags.com/detailv...tO-ffs4nFQnEM6_TLiFmFYWLcE_hSb9IaAjghEALw_wcB

Thanks!

 

[Mollymolasses]

Okay so the tcu and ecu for this bus are one unit and it was in fact inside the metal housing box behind the rear drivers side wheel. I have attached picture. Found one wire (the pink one, seat 26) on the grey/white connector that was not receiving power. Spliced a temporary wire onto the pink wire and ran straight to the battery to see if this line is in fact the problem and it worked! Pad gets power, engine cranks. Gonna need to trace the whole line again to find the disconnect but at least now we know the problem. Currently working on locating the Vehicle Interface Module which is still illusive but there is a rear engine start switch in the rear engine compartment. Checking that housing now for the VIM. Attached picture of battery compartment also as suggested. Thank you for all the assistance guys. I will keep posting as we continue to work through. Also those little pen light sensors have been a true life saver!

 

[ewo1]

Okay so the tcu and ecu for this bus are one unit and it was in fact inside the metal housing box behind the rear drivers side wheel. I have attached picture. Found one wire (the pink one, seat 26) on the grey/white connector that was not receiving power. Spliced a temporary wire onto the pink wire and ran straight to the battery to see if this line is in fact the problem and it worked! Pad gets power, engine cranks. Gonna need to trace the whole line again to find the disconnect but at least now we know the problem. Currently working on locating the Vehicle Interface Module which is still illusive but there is a rear engine start switch in the rear engine compartment. Checking that housing now for the VIM. Attached picture of battery compartment also as suggested. Thank you for all the assistance guys. I will keep posting as we continue to work through. Also those little pen light sensors have been a true life saver!

Great job !!!

On my bus the problem was broken wire inside the Deutschmark connector, 2 times this happened to me.

Go under your bus, looking at the tail of the tranny. There is a cable that goes into the tranny, to the solenoids. It should be on the right side of the tranny.
Follow that cable out… in about under a foot that cable will go to another cable, a “Y” cable, that branches out in two directions, one to the push pad and the other to the TCU.

At that connector is a goog place to tone out that wire you suspect as being bad. From this point you can test in both directions, to the TCU and to the push pad.

I only had to test from the push pad to that “y” spot. Twice I found corroded/open/broken connections. The fix was easy, I cut out of the wires from the connector, bridging/ bypassing the connector!

Also, that TCU should be fed from the battery and there should be an inline fuse on that wire.

You need to find that fuse location!

Also, the ECU and TCU are not one and the same thing.
One computer, ECU, manages the electronics for the engine.
The ECU is most times attached to the engine itself.

The TCU manages the electronics for the transmission.

The VIM is a vehicle interface module, controls things like neutral safety, starting, reverse lights….


Let me know what you find !

 

[ewo1]

Look at this attachment - https://www.skoolie.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=65081&d=1650920195

On the TCU pin v26 is a yellow wire that goes to the VIM.
There should be a fuse in the vim. That fuse goes to the battery.

That is where I would go first !

Btw, you should be feeling very proud right now… imagine what a stealer would have charged for labor on this !

 

[Stu & Filo. T]

Does your bus have this module? it would probably be in rt rear cargo area but don't quite me on that check to see if it has green lights & push the reset button, It senses when it thinks the particulate filter is clogged and will derate the power and go into limp mode, Depending how it was ordered it could be wired into your lights as a warning.