Reading Engine Codes Walkthrough

[Sporto-SKO]

Hello all,
I am new to this whole Skoolie obsession, and I am enjoying it immensely.
Through a coworker who was moving back to Germany, I ended up with a completely restored 2014 AE with a MaxxForce 7.

Yeah I know...However this bus has been meticulously restored and maintained by the previous owner, and I have made several long trips with it already, so I am not afraid of the engine just yet.

Anyway, I just need a basic primer to help me get going with reading the engine ECM codes, and finding solutions. I have read through some of the threads on here, and I am still a bit confused about what's what.

Is there a page or reference somewhere that I can go to that explains what I need to get going on engine diagnostics?

I have a check engine light on at the moment, and I would like to start the process of troubleshooting it.

I have read about ServiceMaxx software, and nine pin connectors, which makes sense, but I am not sure where to find these. (the correct ones anyway). Eventually I would like to use a tablet of some kind to monitor everything that the ECM is receiving, but I need to crawl before I can walk.

Thanks in advance for any info or guidance.

 

[Dbacks2k4]

Servicemaxx j1708 (free) is only for pre-maxxforce engines. You'll need Navistar engine diagnostics which *if* you buy legit is an annual subscription. There are other options as well for third party scanning tools, none of which I'm familiar with.

A nexiq USB device will work with maxxforce. That's the adapter to get to a pc to run the diagnostic tools absent a 3rd party scanner. Around $700 legit, last I checked, but the Chinese clones are pretty popular. I got one from China car diags dot com. The software it came with is obviously cracked but didn't contain any malware and the device works so long as you don't upgrade the firmware. Ymmv of course

 

[nikitis]

Dbacks2k4 talking about Maxxforce on his 666th post. The engine is truly evil!

 

[Sporto-SKO]

Servicemaxx j The software it came with is obviously cracked but didn't contain any malware and the device works so long as you don't upgrade the firmware. Ymmv of course

Thanks for the info. It is starting to make more sense. I looked at the USB interfaces, and I can see the software you mentioned. I have two questions that hopefully are in line with this topic.

1. What interface do you think a 2014 IC bus would have? I am guessing J1939 or is it something else.

2. Also, I see a download for NEDS (which you mentioned), but I see NETS comes with the device. Is there a difference between NEDS and NETS.

I do appreciate the help, so far this community is impressive in both assistance and knowledge.

Rich

 

[Dbacks2k4]

Dbacks2k4 talking about Maxxforce on his 666th post. The engine is truly evil!

LOL, I hadn't noticed that. It's perfectly fitting!!!! They are evil!

 

[nikitis]

LOL, I hadn't noticed that. It's perfectly fitting!!!! They are evil!

hehe

 

[Dbacks2k4]

1. What interface do you think a 2014 IC bus would have? I am guessing J1939 or is it something else.

I'm far from an expert on this stuff, all I can share is my experience and research trying to save a few bucks while maintaining my fleet. My fleet was mostly 2001-2006 DT466e's, one leaky T444e, and one cursed '08 MaxxforceDT. We won't talk about the '97 Cummins or the '84 GMC big block gas-guzzler

I'm not a mechanic at all, but a good friend was a Navistar certified mechanic who did a lot of my mechanical work. He had the mantra that if he could teach me to do some of this stuff that meant less work for him ha ha.

AFAIK, the >2008 ECMs were all pretty much J1939. Older than that was J1708. But Navistar loved to introduce some of their own parameters that sometimes J1939 could pick up if I understand it right? The 9-pin adapter on your bus can connect to either protocol, it's just a matter of having a matching software to what it is you're connecting to... ECM, TCM, etc.

2. Also, I see a download for NEDS (which you mentioned), but I see NETS comes with the device. Is there a difference between NEDS and NETS.

I'm moving so most of my stuff is in boxes, including the Chinese CDs, so I can't load them to look at the moment. As I recall though, the software bundle that comes with the Chinese clone included cracked copies of Allison DOC 8.4, Navistar Engine Diagnostics (NED), and Diamond Logic Builder (DL. The English in that stuff isn't the greatest I don't think my bundle came with NETS but that was three years ago I bought it.

I'd never heard of NETS before you mentioned it, but most of the stuff I found on Google about NETS (Navistar Electronic Technical Support) comes from Ford. So I'm guessing maybe that's more for the Ford vehicles that were using Navistar engines? One doc refers to the software phoning-home to Ford to read information from their databases...
https://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/catalog/ids_manuals/NETS_53_FordUsersManual.pdf)

Pre-Maxxforce (<2008 ) uses ServiceMaxx J1708. Per Navistar's download page:

Applicable to:
Bus , Medium Duty , Heavy Duty , Severe Series , Pre 2004 530E , Pre 2004 DT466E , Pre 2004 T444E , 2004 - 2007 DT 466 , 2004 - 2007 VT 275 , 2004 - 2007 VT 365 , 9000i Series , AC / UC & HT / TC Commercial Bus , AE, BE, CE & Integrated Bus , CityStar / CF Series , CXT, MXT , DuraStar , EStar , Global FE Bus , Global SFC Bus , LoadStar , LoneStar , PayStar , ProStar , RE Integrated Bus , TerraStar , TranStar , WorkHorse , WorkStar , 12 Engine Systems , Engine Software​

Maxxforce uses Navistar Engine Diagnostics/NED. Per Navistar's download page:

Applicable to:
Bus , Medium Duty , Heavy Duty , Severe Series , 2007 MaxxForce 10 , 2007 MaxxForce 11 , 2007 MaxxForce 13 , 2007 MaxxForce 5 , 2007 MaxxForce 7 , 2007 MaxxForce 9 , 2007 MaxxForce DT , 2010 MaxxForce 10 , 2010 MaxxForce 11 , 2010 MaxxForce 13 , 2010 MaxxForce 15 , 2010 MaxxForce 7 , 2010 MaxxForce 9 , 2010 MaxxForce DT , 2013 N9 w/SCR , 2013 N10 w/SCR , 2013 N13 w/SCR , 2015 N13 w/SCR , 9000i Series , AC / UC & HT / TC Commercial Bus , AE, BE, CE & Integrated Bus , CityStar / CF Series , CXT, MXT , DuraStar , EStar , HV , HX , LoadStar , LoneStar , LT , MV , PayStar , ProStar , RE Integrated Bus , RH , TerraStar , TranStar , WorkHorse , WorkStar , Engine Software​

There was at one time an newer version of ServiceMaxx (I think they called it ServiceMax Pro J1939??) that would work with the Maxxforce family, but I think maybe it was retired in favor of NED. I'm not 100% sure on that, someone will correct me if I'm wrong. I had downloaded that J1939 version at one point to connect to my '08 MaxxforceDT I had, but it wouldn't work without a subscription so I got rid of it. Then I got rid of that bus

These are the official downloads for the Navistar products and I don't see the ServiceMaxx Pro J1939 in there anymore, just NED.
https://navistarservice.snapon.com/Shopping/Catalog.aspx?CategoryId=204

Although perusing that site I see that IPC (Instrument Panel Cluster), the precursor to Diamond Logic Builder, is available for free now. I might have to play with that a little. I played with the DLB a little from the China CD but didn't know what I was doing so exited before I did any damage.

CadillacKid has refered to a "god-mode" version of ServiceMaxx in threads before that unlocks dealer-only parameters. (https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f37/...software-and-adapters-31036-2.html#post483729)
He described it as a reverse-engineered unofficial variant of ServiceMaxx to achieve some of the same things NavKal can do. I can tell you it's not on the China CDs. I've also seen references online to ServiceMaxx Level 3/ServiceMaxx L3 that is probably the legit "god-mode"

I know both Navistar and Allison had dealer-only versions of software for programming certain things, like modify shift points and on Navistar changing the HP or odometer. I've never tried to get any of the dealer-only versions... I'm nowhere near proficient enough to have that level of power, ha ha. I just need diagnostic data to fix stuff when it breaks. Oh, and the ability to turn off my speed limiter

I do appreciate the help, so far this community is impressive in both assistance and knowledge.

You're welcome. This site is the best resource for people who want to learn and do things right versus dreaming of social media influencer fame ha ha. We're miles better than the FB groups where every other post is the same question about insurance or titles or CDLs lol.

Early on in my planning I got great advice about air conditioning, plumbing, and when I bought my bus that will become my rv conversion - troubleshooting an engine sputtering symptom. Wound up being an EGR issue and I was completely on the wrong path looking at IPR and fuel but I got invaluable advice for things to check out from folks on this site.

Disclaimer --- some of my info above may not be entirely accurate so I hope others will correct me where I've got anything wrong!

 

[Sporto-SKO]

Disclaimer --- some of my info above may not be entirely accurate so I hope others will correct me where I've got anything wrong!

This was very detailed and informative. I have read it several times already, and it is giving me some ideas on how to proceed with my engine management system that I am working on.

So, for the meantime I picked up a Nexas code reader online. It was around 200 bucks with free shipping. My protocol is J1939, and I was able to get some very valuable info from my ECM right away. The good news is that my CEL is from the Oil interval setting. So, I intend to change my oil in the next few days. I was able to use the device to clear the code, and kill the check engine light, but the code keeps coming back when I reread the engine. I also have the Engine Warn in the odometer telling me to change my oil. I know that there are hacks to clear this with the steering wheel buttons, but I don't think they are hooked up anymore (since it is no longer an actual bus). My cheap scanner is not able to clear it consistently, so I am assuming my next move is to get the connector and start communicating with my laptop and the right software.
However, I was relieved to see it is just the service interval light for the engine oil.

Thanks again for the info. I feel more confident as I figure this out.

Rich

 

[cadillackid]

I'm far from an expert on this stuff, all I can share is my experience and research trying to save a few bucks while maintaining my fleet. My fleet was mostly 2001-2006 DT466e's, one leaky T444e, and one cursed '08 MaxxforceDT. We won't talk about the '97 Cummins or the '84 GMC big block gas-guzzler

I'm not a mechanic at all, but a good friend was a Navistar certified mechanic who did a lot of my mechanical work. He had the mantra that if he could teach me to do some of this stuff that meant less work for him ha ha.

AFAIK, the >2008 ECMs were all pretty much J1939. Older than that was J1708. But Navistar loved to introduce some of their own parameters that sometimes J1939 could pick up if I understand it right? The 9-pin adapter on your bus can connect to either protocol, it's just a matter of having a matching software to what it is you're connecting to... ECM, TCM, etc.



I'm moving so most of my stuff is in boxes, including the Chinese CDs, so I can't load them to look at the moment. As I recall though, the software bundle that comes with the Chinese clone included cracked copies of Allison DOC 8.4, Navistar Engine Diagnostics (NED), and Diamond Logic Builder (DL. The English in that stuff isn't the greatest I don't think my bundle came with NETS but that was three years ago I bought it.

I'd never heard of NETS before you mentioned it, but most of the stuff I found on Google about NETS (Navistar Electronic Technical Support) comes from Ford. So I'm guessing maybe that's more for the Ford vehicles that were using Navistar engines? One doc refers to the software phoning-home to Ford to read information from their databases...
https://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/catalog/ids_manuals/NETS_53_FordUsersManual.pdf)

Pre-Maxxforce (<2008 ) uses ServiceMaxx J1708. Per Navistar's download page:

Applicable to:
Bus , Medium Duty , Heavy Duty , Severe Series , Pre 2004 530E , Pre 2004 DT466E , Pre 2004 T444E , 2004 - 2007 DT 466 , 2004 - 2007 VT 275 , 2004 - 2007 VT 365 , 9000i Series , AC / UC & HT / TC Commercial Bus , AE, BE, CE & Integrated Bus , CityStar / CF Series , CXT, MXT , DuraStar , EStar , Global FE Bus , Global SFC Bus , LoadStar , LoneStar , PayStar , ProStar , RE Integrated Bus , TerraStar , TranStar , WorkHorse , WorkStar , 12 Engine Systems , Engine Software​

Maxxforce uses Navistar Engine Diagnostics/NED. Per Navistar's download page:

Applicable to:
Bus , Medium Duty , Heavy Duty , Severe Series , 2007 MaxxForce 10 , 2007 MaxxForce 11 , 2007 MaxxForce 13 , 2007 MaxxForce 5 , 2007 MaxxForce 7 , 2007 MaxxForce 9 , 2007 MaxxForce DT , 2010 MaxxForce 10 , 2010 MaxxForce 11 , 2010 MaxxForce 13 , 2010 MaxxForce 15 , 2010 MaxxForce 7 , 2010 MaxxForce 9 , 2010 MaxxForce DT , 2013 N9 w/SCR , 2013 N10 w/SCR , 2013 N13 w/SCR , 2015 N13 w/SCR , 9000i Series , AC / UC & HT / TC Commercial Bus , AE, BE, CE & Integrated Bus , CityStar / CF Series , CXT, MXT , DuraStar , EStar , HV , HX , LoadStar , LoneStar , LT , MV , PayStar , ProStar , RE Integrated Bus , RH , TerraStar , TranStar , WorkHorse , WorkStar , Engine Software​

There was at one time an newer version of ServiceMaxx (I think they called it ServiceMax Pro J1939??) that would work with the Maxxforce family, but I think maybe it was retired in favor of NED. I'm not 100% sure on that, someone will correct me if I'm wrong. I had downloaded that J1939 version at one point to connect to my '08 MaxxforceDT I had, but it wouldn't work without a subscription so I got rid of it. Then I got rid of that bus

These are the official downloads for the Navistar products and I don't see the ServiceMaxx Pro J1939 in there anymore, just NED.
https://navistarservice.snapon.com/Shopping/Catalog.aspx?CategoryId=204

Although perusing that site I see that IPC (Instrument Panel Cluster), the precursor to Diamond Logic Builder, is available for free now. I might have to play with that a little. I played with the DLB a little from the China CD but didn't know what I was doing so exited before I did any damage.

CadillacKid has refered to a "god-mode" version of ServiceMaxx in threads before that unlocks dealer-only parameters. (https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f37/...software-and-adapters-31036-2.html#post483729)
He described it as a reverse-engineered unofficial variant of ServiceMaxx to achieve some of the same things NavKal can do. I can tell you it's not on the China CDs. I've also seen references online to ServiceMaxx Level 3/ServiceMaxx L3 that is probably the legit "god-mode"

I know both Navistar and Allison had dealer-only versions of software for programming certain things, like modify shift points and on Navistar changing the HP or odometer. I've never tried to get any of the dealer-only versions... I'm nowhere near proficient enough to have that level of power, ha ha. I just need diagnostic data to fix stuff when it breaks. Oh, and the ability to turn off my speed limiter




You're welcome. This site is the best resource for people who want to learn and do things right versus dreaming of social media influencer fame ha ha. We're miles better than the FB groups where every other post is the same question about insurance or titles or CDLs lol.

Early on in my planning I got great advice about air conditioning, plumbing, and when I bought my bus that will become my rv conversion - troubleshooting an engine sputtering symptom. Wound up being an EGR issue and I was completely on the wrong path looking at IPR and fuel but I got invaluable advice for things to check out from folks on this site.

Disclaimer --- some of my info above may not be entirely accurate so I hope others will correct me where I've got anything wrong!

NavKal and servicemaxx are 2 different designs.. (and then there's diamond logic builder which seems to be what you need for BCM issues.. I dont have a bus with a BCM so I havent tried it.. most all maxxforce busses have one)..


NavKal is designed to keep ECM calibration revisions and firmware up to date with the latest that Navistar has releaded.. it is also designed to program brand new ECM's being used for replacement with the proper calibration.


Servicemaxx J1708 as dhack mentions is for pre-maxxforce only.. ive tried it on a maxxforce and it in fact does not recognize the engine. ironically it will show the J1939 ID for the allison, the ABS, and the shift pad..


servicemaxx "god mode" is in fact a "reverse engineered" version.. it is technically enabling "dealer" parameters of "pro" in an "offline" mode. it works for Maxxforce.. I have used it...