Roof raise question

flashpipe

New Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2023
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1
My stepson and his wife are getting ready to do their roof raise (they want to go 18" high) and asked for some help. I went out last weekend to get an idea of what they were dealing with. I had done some research online and what they were planning didn't look like anything that I had seen and it seemed questionable.

I asked why they weren't using the welded channels and threaded rod solution and they said it was too expensive for a one-time use.

Instead, they're planning to use 4 wooden panels with a 2x4 clamped to the window top hats and then loosen the bottom clamp, jack each one up 2-3" at a time and tighten the clamp down before moving to the next one. He started cutting a few of the supports and the supports started flexing and we weren't sure the supports would be solid enough.

You can look at the attached images to see what one of the supports looks like and how it's secured to the roof. I'm thinking, if we at least screw blocks to the top of the 2x4 to keep it locked on the roof support and put a piece of wood right up against the top hat to keep it flush, that will help but I'm hoping to get some ideas in here.

Just trying to make this safer that it currently seems...

Thanks for all the incredible tips and advice in this forum!
 
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ABORT. ABORT. ABORT !!!


That method is suicide!

:hide: An accident waiting to happen! :hide:

Those clamps are weak, real weak, crap almost for the job you are tryin to do!
They are the WRONG tool for the job!

If they use the planned method and a breeze or a simple bump moves that roof forward or backward those clamps WILL not hold the forces/weight of that roof.

The minimal cost in materials for building screw jacks, there is no argument!!!
Safety is always first!



The screw jacks are a tried and proven method!

The system I used, hat channel sliders, is also tried and proven.

Heck you already got to have the square tubing to do the roof raise and with the hat channel slider you raise the roof and leave those same square tubes in place so there is no extra cost!

https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f10/roof-raise-hat-channel-slider-24890.html


https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f11/bus-9906-a-26674.html. (post #13)


I would seriously reconsider that method and at the least try to reach out and talk to those who have done roof raises.

BTW, anyone who argues that doing it safer is too expensive for a one time use....is not thinking things through clearly!
 
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Do not use a 2x4 for a support, the roof will snap those in two if a slight breeze comes, and/or the bus isn't 100% level. The roof will slide and snap them.

The B7 rod is not terribly expensive for what it will do for you. About $42 for 1inch x 4ft length. Times that by 4, and you have a roof raise equipment for $168, + tube and some nuts. So Roughly $200 you can have it raised. Plus $80 in welding materials, $280 and it will be solidified at the hat channels, and another $100 in square tubing for the front and rear fortifications, so $380 roughly you got a roof raise safely. This isn't that expensive, and if you think it is, you shouldn't be building a skoolie. I know a lot of young kids are doing these solutions to live because housing is unaffordable, but regardless you gotta spend a little money on the cheap solutioins too.


This doesn't enclose the roof raise, but for this price you can safely and reliably get it done up and welded together solid.

Hat channel extensions $400-600, and 16-18 gauge sheet panels - $1100-1400.

$200 in rivets.

You're looking at $2700 on the high end, and $2300 on the low end to complete it. Less if you have some of the materials already.

The reason we stress doing it right on these forums is also to help with insuring our buses. Don't be the one who ruins the ability to ensure our buses with insurance companies for the rest of us because you didn't properly secure the roof raise get in an accident, your bus falls apart and the insurance company has to pay out way more than it anticipated because it was weak for all the rest of us. We're all in this together whether you realize it or not, your work affects all of us. It's difficult enough to get insurers to insure our buses as it is.

ABORT. ABORT. ABORT !!!


That method is suicide!

:hide: An accident waiting to happen! :hide:

Those clamps are weak, real weak, crap almost for the job you are tryin to do!
They are the WRONG tool for the job!

If they use the planned method and a breeze or a simple bump moves that roof forward or backward those clamps WILL not hold the forces/weight of that roof.

The minimal cost in materials for building screw jacks, there is no argument!!!
Safety is always first!



The screw jacks are a tried and proven method!

The system I used, hat channel sliders, is also tried and proven.


I would seriously reconsider that method and at the least try to reach out and talk to those who have done roof raises.

BTW, anyone who argues that doing it safer is too expensive for a one time use....is not thinking things through clearly!

I watched this method and the only issue I have with this is that you require 4 bottle jacks to lift. vs 4 nuts. $5 nuts vs $220 in bottle jacks, and you still require a slide tube if you look carefully on the video you posted. And the roof is sitting on the bottle jack tops, not welded to it so it potentially could still slide off of the jacks. The guy in the video even stated "The only thing holding this roof up now is gravity" Admitting it was free floating on the jacks. Granted it's sort of locked in by the square tubing in the channels on both sides, but still with enough pressure it could pop out of the hat channel. And with being careful it's not much of a risk.
 
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Do not use a 2x4 for a support, the roof will snap those in two if a slight breeze comes, and/or the bus isn't 100% level. The roof will slide and snap them.

The B7 rod is not terribly expensive for what it will do for you. About $42 for 1inch x 4ft length. Times that by 4, and you have a roof raise equipment for $168, + tube and some nuts. So Roughly $200 you can have it raised. Plus $80 in welding materials, $280 and it will be solidified at the hat channels, and another $100 in square tubing for the front and rear fortifications, so $380 roughly you got a roof raise safely. This isn't that expensive, and if you think it is, you shouldn't be building a skoolie. I know a lot of young kids are doing these solutions to live because housing is unaffordable, but regardless you gotta spend a little money on the cheap solutioins too.


This doesn't enclose the roof raise, but for this price you can safely and reliably get it done up and welded together solid.

Hat channel extensions $400-600, and 16-18 gauge sheet panels - $1100-1400.

$200 in rivets.

You're looking at $2700 on the high end, and $2300 on the low end to complete it. Less if you have some of the materials already.

The reason we stress doing it right on these forums is also to help with insuring our buses. Don't be the one who ruins the ability to ensure our buses with insurance companies for the rest of us because you didn't properly secure the roof raise get in an accident, your bus falls apart and the insurance company has to pay out way more than it anticipated because it was weak for all the rest of us. We're all in this together whether you realize it or not, your work affects all of us. It's difficult enough to get insurers to insure our buses as it is.



I watched this method and the only issue I have with this is that you require 4 bottle jacks to lift. vs 4 nuts. $5 nuts vs $220 in bottle jacks, and you still require a slide tube if you look carefully on the video you posted. And the roof is sitting on the bottle jack tops, not welded to it so it potentially could still slide off of the jacks. The guy in the video even stated "The only thing holding this roof up now is gravity" Admitting it was free floating on the jacks. Granted it's sort of locked in by the square tubing in the channels on both sides, but still with enough pressure it could pop out of the hat channel. And with being careful it's not much of a risk.

2 bottle jacks are required, not 4 and besides, you will need at least one for the life of the bus.

What keeps it stable, mich more than the screw method, is the fact that it is sliding within tracks. On my lifts i did 4 “ slider tracks” on each side (38’ bus).

To keep the tubing from popping out, I covered/ secured the square tubes that slide within the hat channels with the 3 inch wide sheetmetal covers that already cover the hat channels on the exterior of the bus. You can use nuts and bolts for that.
This keeps the sliding square tube securely inside the hat channels while you lift.

The upper half of the square tubbing you can either weld or pass a bolt thru to the hat channel.

I used a 4x4 across and thru each window, for and aft, and set a stand in the middle which is where i place the bottle jacks creating a “T” if you will, to raise the roof.

As you raise the roof it will be forced to travel within the encased hat channel.

By using at least 4 sliders on each there is very little to no chance the roof will slide to one side and fall.

The screw method also works but if you are not a good welder there is a chance it could give way. Not only that but with the slider method you already have in place the tubes in place for final securement of the roof.

I’m not saying one method is better than the other but i will say i felt it much safer this way.

Either way you do it “gravity” is your enemy. But with the sliders the only way down will be back in it’s original place, just like when you started versus shifting and falling to one side out of alignment.
With the screw method, if one fails, gravity will send the roof in the direction of the failure vs being forced to go straight down into the hat channels.

I also did not use hat channel extensions. I stead i used a1/4 angle iron and welded it to the square tubing. That was so to create a lip so i could rivet the skins to. I also staggered cut all the hat channels in order to eliminate a shearline.

I did 2 roofs this way and one of them was outdoors. That job , the bus sat outdoors for a week with the roof only being held up with 3 slider tubes on each side.
 
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This is genuinely the sketchiest roof raise method I've ever seen, by a huge margin. So it's not surprising to also see somebody using a cutoff wheel on an angle grinder with the guard removed (props for the ear protection, at least). Sorry to say but your kids are a serious accident waiting to happen even if the roof doesn't crush them.
 
2 bottle jacks are required, not 4 and besides, you will need at least one for the life of the bus.

What keeps it stable, mich more than the screw method, is the fact that it is sliding within tracks. On my lifts i did 4 “ slider tracks” on each side (38’ bus).

To keep the tubing from popping out, I covered/ secured the square tubes that slide within the hat channels with the 3 inch wide sheetmetal covers that already cover the hat channels on the exterior of the bus. You can use nuts and bolts for that.
This keeps the sliding square tube securely inside the hat channels while you lift.

Either way you do it “gravity” is your enemy. But with the sliders the only way down will be back in it’s original place, just like when you started versus shifting and falling to one side out of alignment.
With the screw method, if one fails, gravity will send the roof in the direction of the failure vs being forced to go straight down into the hat channels.

If you are adding 3 inch wide covers to prevent the bars from popping out of the Hat channel, then that is perfectly fine. Without those, it is possible if enough sideways force were to be introduced with added weight of the ceiling, it could bend at the top and they slide out, but not with temporary welded covers holding them in.

In most cases they probably wouldn't even pop out without the covers, but there's a chance. I can just imagine some guy trying this method, not using anything and relying solely on the hat channel alone and they misjudged the wind that day, ending in disaster.

Regarding the screw method, why would one fail? If you use the solid materials being suggested, a B7 1 inch bolt isn't going to fail you, nor will a nut that is on it that size. The only potential failure would be shitty welds on the slide tubes at the wall welds. And if one can't do that well enough then one probably shouldn't attempt a roof raise IMO. It's a litmus test so to speak.
 
What attachments?

There were two images attached when this was first posted. I guess the forum enforces the restriction on images for new accounts by removing them at a later time, because they're not there any more.

You're better off not seeing them, as they were very NSFW.
 
There were two images attached when this was first posted. I guess the forum enforces the restriction on images for new accounts by removing them at a later time, because they're not there any more.

You're better off not seeing them, as they were very NSFW.

Wow, they were there this morning!

Those pics were actually helpful in understanding what the OP was trying to share with us.

Wonder what gonna happen with the other first time poster selling 2 busses is gonna happen...disappear too?
 
i did 2x8 awhorses and 1 bottle jack on my 16 inch raise. all the experts here get all wired up if you dont do it thier way so be prepared to get some crap. i had 2 sawhorses secured to the floor and secured to the wall at the hat channel by the botton of the window . some ass called it janky. it could not move . with blocking and 1 jack i went up a few inches at a time. this process took a couple of months as i was a otr driver and never had much time. when i was gone a couple of straps over the roof kept it secure while it was up. now i chose this as i seen threaded rods fail. one the guy was inside and had to be extracated. i can not see how a hat channel that is cut off can offer any side support. plan it out your way and use what you want consider it moving down, sideways and front or back and brace good and laugh at these crybabys
 
Regarding the screw method, why would one fail? If you use the solid materials being suggested, a B7 1 inch bolt isn't going to fail you, nor will a nut that is on it that size. The only potential failure would be shitty welds on the slide tubes at the wall welds. And if one can't do that well enough then one probably shouldn't attempt a roof raise IMO. It's a litmus test so to speak.[/QUOTE]

no sideways or front to back support
 
There is front to back support. Its built into the tube you weld into the walls, which is then secured by using B7 1 in thick rod. Its not gonna twist. You weld five to 6 inches of plate vertically at the bottom and top of all 4 posts that roof aint going no where.
 
Hi Flashpipe, This is how I did the roof raise, It worked well and was very stable. I used 8x8 landscape timbers, because I had them laying around, set them across the bus in the front and back. Then placed 4 scissor jacks near the outer sides of the bus and on top another 8x8 timber. I cut 4 channels one near each corner and welded tube inside the bottom portion of the channel extending past the height that I planned to raise the roof to act as sliders. Once that was done and the jacks were all snug I cut the remaining channels and raised the roof with the jacks. This made it really easy to get the exact height in all four corners. Then welded in tube on the remaining channels. Her are some pics as an example.
37983-albums2129-picture27152.jpg

37983-albums2129-picture27150.jpg


There are lots of good ways to do the roof raise. The folks here won't steer you wrong. Good luck with the project and every kid would be grateful to have a dad like you.
 

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