Short Bus to Food Truck Conversion

[Marvin-SKO]

Hey everyone, this is my first post and I came across this site just today while doing more research on buses. I visited BGA School Buses in Hudson, FL yesterday and spent 7 1/2 hours hanging out with the owners (Greg Sr. & Jr.). They showed me around and I drove a couple of them but they ultimately need some rust work done which will set me back a couple of weeks from purchase date if I chose one. I enjoyed my time there and they're super nice but from what I can see on the site, they may be a bit higher than what I can get.

Here's a little history to help as well; I have been a Business Analyst for a little over a decade and just had a baby who turns 1 tomorrow. I'm burnt out of the corporate world and want to start up my own venture in the food truck area. I like what this guy did in this video where he used the wheelchair door as the service window which didn't require any cutting to fit a concession window

If all goes well with the business, I'd like to get another longer bus and turn it into a Skoolie, but that wouldn't be until next year at the earliest.

This is the first one I drove that's from Virginia: 1996 International Thomas Vista T444E Allison Automatic Hydraulic Brakes 6 row@ BGA School Buses, Inc. Hudson, FL
It has almost 300k miles and the radiator has green liquid all over it and needs some rust work done.

This is the second one I drove: 2007 IC BE200 VT365 Diesel Hydraulic Brakes 5 Row Used bus@ BGA School Buses, Inc. Hudson, FL
It had brake issues and he said he put $4,500 into it so that's why the price is higher. It doesn't fit my needs though so I scratched that idea, plus I'm trying to stay under 10k for the budget.

Just before I left his son mentioned that they had another one that didn't require CDL and was a short bus but it was so dark and the battery was dead so I didn't drive it. It has a lot of rust and is from Pennsylvania so I think that one is out in my opinion.
2000 International AmTran T444E Diesel Automatic Hydraulic Brakes 5 row Florida 30 Passenger used bus@ BGA School Buses, Inc. Hudson, FL

Since I'm not driving it around the country, and it's only on the road from my place to the destination where I'll be serving (city streets and less than 30 miles a day), I don't need a power-horse and high miles are fine as long as I'm not constantly having to deal with problems that can't be quickly swapped out at a local auto store.

I'm continuing to browse the forums but wanted to at least post and see if anyone has experience with this type of conversion or has advice on getting one quickly as I have been out of work for 3 months and need to get going on the project since the next steps are ripping out seats, floor, adding gas lines, plumbing, hood/exhaust, air, etc.

Thanks,
Anthony

 

[WanderWoman-SKO]

Hi Anthony,
Welcome to the forum! My family and I have discussed doing this, as well. My son and son-in-law are both chefs and have wanted to do a food truck for a long time.
I'm living full time on my Skoolie while converting it.
Looking forward to seeing what you end up doing.
Sandi
www.thismidwifetravels.com


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[EastCoastCB]

Hey everyone, this is my first post and I came across this site just today while doing more research on buses. I visited BGA School Buses in Hudson, FL yesterday and spent 7 1/2 hours hanging out with the owners (Greg Sr. & Jr.). They showed me around and I drove a couple of them but they ultimately need some rust work done which will set me back a couple of weeks from purchase date if I chose one. I enjoyed my time there and they're super nice but from what I can see on the site, they may be a bit higher than what I can get.

Here's a little history to help as well; I have been a Business Analyst for a little over a decade and just had a baby who turns 1 tomorrow. I'm burnt out of the corporate world and want to start up my own venture in the food truck area. I like what this guy did in this video where he used the wheelchair door as the service window which didn't require any cutting to fit a concession window

If all goes well with the business, I'd like to get another longer bus and turn it into a Skoolie, but that wouldn't be until next year at the earliest.

This is the first one I drove that's from Virginia: 1996 International Thomas Vista T444E Allison Automatic Hydraulic Brakes 6 row@ BGA School Buses, Inc. Hudson, FL
It has almost 300k miles and the radiator has green liquid all over it and needs some rust work done.

This is the second one I drove: 2007 IC BE200 VT365 Diesel Hydraulic Brakes 5 Row Used bus@ BGA School Buses, Inc. Hudson, FL
It had brake issues and he said he put $4,500 into it so that's why the price is higher. It doesn't fit my needs though so I scratched that idea, plus I'm trying to stay under 10k for the budget.

Just before I left his son mentioned that they had another one that didn't require CDL and was a short bus but it was so dark and the battery was dead so I didn't drive it. It has a lot of rust and is from Pennsylvania so I think that one is out in my opinion.
2000 International AmTran T444E Diesel Automatic Hydraulic Brakes 5 row Florida 30 Passenger used bus@ BGA School Buses, Inc. Hudson, FL

Since I'm not driving it around the country, and it's only on the road from my place to the destination where I'll be serving (city streets and less than 30 miles a day), I don't need a power-horse and high miles are fine as long as I'm not constantly having to deal with problems that can't be quickly swapped out at a local auto store.

I'm continuing to browse the forums but wanted to at least post and see if anyone has experience with this type of conversion or has advice on getting one quickly as I have been out of work for 3 months and need to get going on the project since the next steps are ripping out seats, floor, adding gas lines, plumbing, hood/exhaust, air, etc.

Thanks,
Anthony

Sounds like they spent the day being nice, buttering you up, and hoping to unload what sounds like a TERRIBLE deal on some buses that don't sound very desirable at all.
AVOID the 365 engine. also RUN from rust. Especially at those laughable, silly, ridiculous prices.
I'm sure they're REALLY nice people. But If folks were coming over to my place to give me 6 times what I paid for my stuff, I'd be very VERY codial myself.

 

[cadillackid]

the thing you'll find about BGA's busses, is likely they may be opposite of what you are going for.. they tend to have pretty mechanically sound busses but thwt have rust..

(1 of mine is from there). and as mentioned the prices are sky high.. esp comparatively to what you can get at auction.. and even higher than what they were a year ago..

for what you want to do there are a lot of good southern busses out there if you are willing to play the auctions and drive a bit to pick one up..

im not sure on florida as far as food-trucks but I know in Ohio, there is a max length that a food truck can be at a lot of food truck festivals and events, they like to pack them in pretty tight. you might look into the sign-up process for some events / fairs thast you consider as plaxces you'df attend and see what the size retrictions are to help give you an idea the max size bus you need to stay under..

the folks at BGA are super nice and very knowledgable,(I enjoy stoppiung up there and talking to them) but they are definitely geared more toward the higher budget...

ECCB will tell you (and I attest first hand) that busses run in school service locally in florida are generallty not great.. (BGA buys 95% of theirs out of state for a reason).

we SHOULD see here in another month or two many busses come on the market as spring nears and school systems put units up for sale at the end of the school year they want ot get rid of..

-Christopher

 

[Marvin-SKO]

the thing you'll find about BGA's busses, is likely they may be opposite of what you are going for.. they tend to have pretty mechanically sound busses but thwt have rust..

(1 of mine is from there). and as mentioned the prices are sky high.. esp comparatively to what you can get at auction.. and even higher than what they were a year ago..

for what you want to do there are a lot of good southern busses out there if you are willing to play the auctions and drive a bit to pick one up..

im not sure on florida as far as food-trucks but I know in Ohio, there is a max length that a food truck can be at a lot of food truck festivals and events, they like to pack them in pretty tight. you might look into the sign-up process for some events / fairs thast you consider as plaxces you'df attend and see what the size retrictions are to help give you an idea the max size bus you need to stay under..

the folks at BGA are super nice and very knowledgable,(I enjoy stoppiung up there and talking to them) but they are definitely geared more toward the higher budget...

ECCB will tell you (and I attest first hand) that busses run in school service locally in florida are generallty not great.. (BGA buys 95% of theirs out of state for a reason).

we SHOULD see here in another month or two many busses come on the market as spring nears and school systems put units up for sale at the end of the school year they want ot get rid of..

-Christopher

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I'm actually going to Tampa Bus Market tomorrow to check out what they have and will let you know. I went there on my way to BGA on Saturday but they were closed even though it says they're open. I'm going to call before to make sure I don't drive an hour and they're closed again.

Anyway, what do you mean about Florida buses not being great? I would figure that they wouldn't have any rust issues since there is no salt/snow to deal with, but I don't know.

 

[EastCoastCB]

Our schools are underfunded and overcrowded. We have one of the worst school systems in the country. They buy the lowest spec buses here and maintain them less than other states that care more about kids and schools. Like Colorado.

What about the 96 shorty in GA on GovDeals?? Its only up to 1500.

 

[cadillackid]

what EC said...

i walk around a LOT down here in st pete.. and I often hear busses driving by me that you can hear have obvious mechanical issues... I guess the A/C always works since the windows are all closed but some of the engines sound rough...

not every florida bus is going to be bad.. but some are..

all we are saying is look around.. theres a ton of busses in other states that may be better and cheaper...
my bluebird shorty is from texas and has been great, EC shorty is from colorado and is super sound..

but after all they are old school busses.. they have all been beat around a bit.. so expect to have some quirks here and there to deal with.. but busses in this tampa general area see mto be much higher than what they are averaging at even other dealers..

my BGA DEV bus has served me well.. I needed a bus on a tight timeline and I had goals to meet.. I ran over 14,000 miles on it last year.. but I dare say I paid quite a bit more than I wouldve had to for a very similar bus from auction.. and I got treated super well by greg and family..

you may find exactly what you want from there or tampa bus market, all thats being mentioned is to look around and see whats out there if you are willing to drive a few miles and take a little time.. if you are on a tight time schedule for this build, then you may find one of the dealers here has a suitable bus.. that was my need last year..

-Christopher

 

[Marvin-SKO]

Well today at Tampa Bus Market was very successful. I only spent 1 hour as opposed to 7 over at BGA, and drove two buses. Both T444E with wheelchair doors on the back under 26k weight.

The first one is a 2002 with about 170k miles. The power steering was a bit tight and the wheel made noise every turn. He said that's an easy fix and would add more fluid. I think it drove well but may have needed an alignment since the wheel was turned a bit to the left for it to go straight. It has 2 rock chips on the windshield too so I'm not sure how much that would be to replace. https://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/bfs/6040963114.html

The second one is a 1999 with about 260k miles. It drove better but had a louder sound in the engine. When I got back from taking it on a short drive, I noticed under the bus that it looked like an oil leak. He said that he'll have his mechanic look at it and should be an easy fix too. How bad does it look? I don't know much about engines, just getting in and starting the thing.

I asked him what his price would be for them and he said $4,500 for either one.

He's getting another identical one to the 1999 in on Friday and I told him that I would be by to check it out and also see what the status is on the two I drove (power steering & oil)

What do you think? Are those major issues to worry about or would it be a safe buy? There is no rust on these which made me so happy and it's half the price of BGA which had lots of rust.

 

[EastCoastCB]

Still shopping retail? Looks like a couple of lackluster buses for 2x auction value.

 

[johnbloem1974]

We bought our bus from them also. The guy was very nice, honest and I think we got a decent deal. Could have paid less at an auction, but I was happy with the price. It was also nice to have his number handy to be able to call him on the trip back if we had any problems. All in all, a good experience...

John

 

[Marvin-SKO]

Unfortunately, yes, and as John mentioned, it's a bit more than auction but for my current situation; I think the price is just about right considering I was going to pay close to 10k with BGA before I did research. I figure if I were to wait around for something on auction, buy it without having the chance to drive it or nitpick, have to fly to the destination and spend gas to drive it back, potentially deal with rust, etc. I think 4500 isn't that bad to have the peace of mind. I just hope that the power steering or oil isn't a problem. Who knows, maybe the one on Friday will be perfect. Fingers crossed.

I wish I had time to wait, and for my skoolie project I'll certainly go to the auctions, but for getting the business up and running, I can't wait around a month or more to try and save a grand.

You all have been awesome with the quick responses and I appreciate your help so far. I'll be in touch after I go back and will let you know how it goes between the three.

:Thanx:

 

[cadillackid]

Small oil leaks are common on many diesels however they usually don't show up on short rides..
I can drive either of mine on a short ride and never notice any oil on the ground, oil is thicker when cold.. it wasn't that hot here today in Tampa to have thin oil right away so that oil leak might concern me , was that a 444e also?

If a bus requires power steering fluid then there's likely a leak there somewhere as you should never need to add fluid.

Shopping retail gives you the advantage of crawling around many busses but like EC said you'll pay more.

Unless this is a high gear project take your time ..

Christopher

 

[cowlitzcoach]

Since it appears you are sort of stuck on purchasing something local I think you will end up paying for the privilege of not traveling further afield.

I am not saying you won't find a good bus but you will be paying more than what they are worth by doing so.

Rust--if it has any, walk away. It is a never ending battle that just gets more expensive as time goes by.

Leaks--if it has any, walk away. Leaks are a good indication of poor preventative maintenance programs. Green leaks are coolant which could indicate a bad radiator (over $1K to repair), hoses that are getting ready to fail, loose clamps, or a crack in the block. Red leaks are from the transmission which could indicate seals failing, a torque convertor getting ready to spew, or loose cooler lines. Black leaks are from the engine which could indicate anything from valve cover or oil pan gaskets that need replacing to a cracked block. Black could also indicate a fuel leak which could be something simple like a fuel return hose that was failing to a failing injection pump.

Tires--since you are wanting to get your conversion done quickly and want to be on the road ASAP, make sure the tires are of a recent vintage without any visible cracks, cuts, or bulges in the side walls and that there is decent tread on the tires. If you are purchasing from a dealer with a lot of buses of a similar size bargain for the best set of tires on the lot. Six new tires is going to cost upwards of $3K for "cheap" Chinese knock off tires. Name brand tires will cost a whole lot more.

Driving--if the bus doesn't track straight, if the steering doesn't turn smoothly from lock to lock, if the steering doesn't return to center while driving down the road you need to walk away and find another bus. Broken springs, cracked or broken frames, worn out steering components, worn out king pins, tires that are ready to come apart, etc. are all items that can cause issues with driving straight down the road. Walk away if the bus doesn't drive straight. And don't buy the "we'll put some fluid into the power steering to make it stop growling" pitch. If it is low on power steering fluid it might be a good idea to know why it was low to start with.

Engine--if the bus engine is warm when you show up come back another day to see what it takes to get started when it is cold. Booster batteries, starting fluid, and other aids to starting might be required to get the bus started. Hard starting can be a result of low batteries, inoperative glow plug/pre-heaters, a worn out starter, or a worn out engine. Knowing if it is a simple problem or an expensive problem will determine if you walk away or not. When running the engine should idle smoothly, it should rev up easily and return to idle quickly. The throttle should move through the full range of the throttle without any binding or stiffness. While driving it should respond to throttle inputs without any hesitations.

Transmission--the fluid needs to be cherry pink and smell fresh. If it is any other color or if it has a sort of caramel flavor to the smell you need to walk away. It should shift from forward to reverse without any hesitation and go into gear with a solid chunk. If it doesn't, walk away. When running down the road it should upshift easily and down shift when the throttle is put to the floor. When you come to a stop if should downshift into low gear before you come to a complete stop. If not, walk away.

You will be paying high retail prices. Don't be shy about getting the best one they have for the lowest price possible. Just because the asking price is "set" a handful of cash can speak volumes.

Good luck and happy trails to you.

 

[Marvin-SKO]

Small oil leaks are common on many diesels however they usually don't show up on short rides..
I can drive either of mine on a short ride and never notice any oil on the ground, oil is thicker when cold.. it wasn't that hot here today in Tampa to have thin oil right away so that oil leak might concern me , was that a 444e also?

If a bus requires power steering fluid then there's likely a leak there somewhere as you should never need to add fluid.

Shopping retail gives you the advantage of crawling around many busses but like EC said you'll pay more.

Unless this is a high gear project take your time ..

Christopher

Christopher,

I didn't notice any thin oil coming out or on the ground, which was nice, but from the picture I posted, it looks like it's all over the hoses and under it. Without knowing about engines, I wasn't sure if that was a problem. It sounded louder than the other one too which made me think it was working harder. It's a T444E

I'm leaning more toward that one, even though it has higher miles, because the 02 had gauges that weren't working properly and I don't want to deal with that or the rock chips on the windshield.

 

[Marvin-SKO]

Since it appears you are sort of stuck on purchasing something local I think you will end up paying for the privilege of not traveling further afield.

I am not saying you won't find a good bus but you will be paying more than what they are worth by doing so.

Rust--if it has any, walk away. It is a never ending battle that just gets more expensive as time goes by.

Leaks--if it has any, walk away. Leaks are a good indication of poor preventative maintenance programs. Green leaks are coolant which could indicate a bad radiator (over $1K to repair), hoses that are getting ready to fail, loose clamps, or a crack in the block. Red leaks are from the transmission which could indicate seals failing, a torque convertor getting ready to spew, or loose cooler lines. Black leaks are from the engine which could indicate anything from valve cover or oil pan gaskets that need replacing to a cracked block. Black could also indicate a fuel leak which could be something simple like a fuel return hose that was failing to a failing injection pump.

Tires--since you are wanting to get your conversion done quickly and want to be on the road ASAP, make sure the tires are of a recent vintage without any visible cracks, cuts, or bulges in the side walls and that there is decent tread on the tires. If you are purchasing from a dealer with a lot of buses of a similar size bargain for the best set of tires on the lot. Six new tires is going to cost upwards of $3K for "cheap" Chinese knock off tires. Name brand tires will cost a whole lot more.

Driving--if the bus doesn't track straight, if the steering doesn't turn smoothly from lock to lock, if the steering doesn't return to center while driving down the road you need to walk away and find another bus. Broken springs, cracked or broken frames, worn out steering components, worn out king pins, tires that are ready to come apart, etc. are all items that can cause issues with driving straight down the road. Walk away if the bus doesn't drive straight. And don't buy the "we'll put some fluid into the power steering to make it stop growling" pitch. If it is low on power steering fluid it might be a good idea to know why it was low to start with.

Engine--if the bus engine is warm when you show up come back another day to see what it takes to get started when it is cold. Booster batteries, starting fluid, and other aids to starting might be required to get the bus started. Hard starting can be a result of low batteries, inoperative glow plug/pre-heaters, a worn out starter, or a worn out engine. Knowing if it is a simple problem or an expensive problem will determine if you walk away or not. When running the engine should idle smoothly, it should rev up easily and return to idle quickly. The throttle should move through the full range of the throttle without any binding or stiffness. While driving it should respond to throttle inputs without any hesitations.

Transmission--the fluid needs to be cherry pink and smell fresh. If it is any other color or if it has a sort of caramel flavor to the smell you need to walk away. It should shift from forward to reverse without any hesitation and go into gear with a solid chunk. If it doesn't, walk away. When running down the road it should upshift easily and down shift when the throttle is put to the floor. When you come to a stop if should downshift into low gear before you come to a complete stop. If not, walk away.

You will be paying high retail prices. Don't be shy about getting the best one they have for the lowest price possible. Just because the asking price is "set" a handful of cash can speak volumes.

Good luck and happy trails to you.

Thank you so much for this detailed information. I'm going to print it out and have it with me when I go back to check out the new one that's being delivered on Friday. The great thing about the ones in Tampa are there is zero rust on them as opposed to BGA which had rust all on the bottom and then they quoted me about $1,000 to fix body rust and would take a couple of weeks and would leave it a primer color.


In regards to the price; he said $4,500 for either one but I'm thinking I should have them also include removing the wheelchair lift, seats, and floor too. BGA wants $600 to do those three which isn't a bad price in my opinion considering the videos I have seen and the threads that I have read about performing those three tasks. That also included patching up the holes left and putting rust converter on the floor.

Although I'm not sure if that would be the price if I didn't buy the overpriced bus to begin with and just brought them a different one and wanted the work done

 

[Robin97396]

If you were buying a used car would you still buy it if the dealer had to do work to get it out the door? On the other hand I understand your sense of urgency and the safety of buying something close to you.

Also consider the value of the wheelchair lift. They resell those. I'm just saying make a deal, rather than giving the lift away for free while paying for seat removal and a painted floor.

Good luck.

 

[EastCoastCB]

I'll remove your seats, lift, and floor for $400. Including a gallon of rustoleum.

 

[Marvin-SKO]

I'll remove your seats, lift, and floor for $400. Including a gallon of rustoleum.

I'll see if he'll throw that service in, otherwise it's a deal

 

[cadillackid]

navistar guages freezing up is a real common issue.. typically its usually bad solder joints on the Gauge board.. that can usually be fixed easy and cheap..

T-444E's when cold are Louder.. if a bus was brouight from a cold weather location it may have an Exhaust Backpressure valve which will make it louder till it warms up as well..

so bus #1 may have been partially warmed up and bus 2 cold..

on the left side of the gauges is a row of idiot lights. when you turn the key to ON (but not engage the starter).. you whould see the 'WARN ENGINE' LIGHT (YELLOW) Come on for sa few seconds and then go off after the bus is running..

if you Never see that light come on when first starting, be weary that someone took the bulb out...

a failed ICP or IPR sensor will make the engine Louder but will turn that light on..

444E's can have a tendency to run hot if on the highway in warm weather for extended periods of time... I drove my 444E over here to orland (where its 86 degrees).. from st pete.. my engine fan was spinning hard alot of the time i was on route 4 at 65 MPH with the A/C on. before i fixed the fan i wouldve been overheated and having to slow down or shut down..

444E's suffer from somewhat undersized split radiators and often bad fan clutches.. if I was buying at a dealer price id want to make sure the cooling system is working as advertised.. and you wont find that out till you run it on the highway on a fairly warm day..

-Christopher

 

[Marvin-SKO]

I'll keep an eye out for those lights and just watched a 30 min video on diesel engines so I know a bit more of what I should be looking for in regards to the power steering and all.

I took video yesterday of the two actually. Here are the links to show the 02 that had a couple windshield chips, power steering tightness, and gauges. The other video is of the 99 that had oil caked on but I didn't see constant leaking so who knows. I'm praying that the one on Friday is a big time win.

2002 T444E Gauges and Windshield

1999 T444E Oil