Shortest + strongest bus made?

[Kwest364]

Looking for a bus that is short + strong engine/trans, all mechanical.

What's shortest + strongest busses you know of?

Looking for a 5/6 window "full size" bus. NOT the van chassis/small shorties: I want the height, tires, engine/trans, and durability of the big busses, just as short as possible. Essentially, this will be my "van" build.

Essentially, I want as overpowered and underweight bus I can find. Ex. 5 window with Cummins 8.3 paired to Alisson MD-3060/6. Autochains, lock up torque converter, trans retarder would be an absolute bonus. (not sure if trans retarders are ever in combination with lock up torque converters).


Where to find and look for these? Where would these types of busses be used? Mountainous regions, but any idea specific schools, regions, areas to check? It would make sense to have very powerful engine paired to strong trans and retarder/torque converter for long descents.

Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, California? Moreso, the dry, desert places to get a rust free bus, but no chains, I get it. CO bus could be rust free, autochains, and all the above, I assume. Thoughts and experiences on where/how to find these buses? Moreso, how would I identify and know what features bus has from factory? A picture won't tell me about transmission, or if there's a retarder, for ex. VIN? But those specific searches NEVER come up with anything good, just basics.



(ATTACHED PIC AND VIDEO):

Here is type of bus I'm thinking for an example. Chuck Cassady featured these buses in a youtube video ("Bought 3 tow aways"). The 3 busses included a 7 window, a 5 window but "full size" bus, and a true 5 window van chassis shorty. He drove 7 window back from a Northern CA school district and mentioned all the driving features it has. It piqued my curiosity of busses with those features. The 7 window he was driving (and implied for the short 5.5 window) in video has MBE 900 6.4L paired to Allison MD3060, cruise, center mounted fuel tank, some sort of engine brake/retarder, and a cool remote starter under the hood for starting interlock issues. If these busses came with that much engine/trans, I assume there's got to be others like it out there. An all mechanical Cummins 8.3/MD3066 is possible. Hard to search for it, because only full 40ft buses tend to come up.

 

[Ronnie-SKO]

Thing is short buses are not often used on anything but short routes,often handicapped, so they are not set up with a lot of power or even gearing for the highway. So rare to find what you want.



I want the same thing, so starting with an old bus stripped the engine, trans, and axles. Put back in a Detroit out of a dump truck, air brake axles, and 5 speed manual trans. Tows my heavy trailer (18,000lb) nice now.


So if you find a really nice one but low spec change out the engine and trans for what you really want.

 

[A. Scullin]

I was wondering the same thing. Where to start looking. It's kind of overwhelming.

 

[cadillackid]

you mosdt likely will need to build it.. ive yet to ever see a conventional with an 8.3, the shortest transit ive seen with an 8.3 was a 10 window..


6 window bluebird conventional shorties (like my red one) were pretty common.. they have bene built with some larger engines such as DT466E.. (very tuneable with orion)... the allison 2000 is most common, however ive see nan MD3060 in a short bus before...


trouble is those are rare.. and at auctions they get sucked up real quick if the exporters dont come and buy them direct from the schools..



my little red 6 window can push about 350 Horsepower with its setup.. and that is WAY MORE than I could ever think of needing to use.. I keep its tuner set on number 4 out of 7 and im still able to speed up on freeway ramps with the regular cars and not break a sweat doing it...


thats all built though.. it was a pretty lethargic 7.3 with a slushbox AT545 when i got it... and most of the 6 windows ive seen out there are similar combos.. with the exceptions I have mentioned above..



your nearly new 6.7 cummins with allison 3000 series tend to have more HP than the predecessors did.. just seems like modern school busses have nore power and ability to move with traffic than the older ones.. of course you have emissions controls to deal with in anything 2008+

 

[nikitis]

I kind of want to buy a Kenworth front end, and replace the cab with a bus, and chop it short.

 

[DeMac]

Work In Progress

Looking for a bus that is short + strong engine/trans, all mechanical.

What's shortest + strongest busses you know of?

Looking for a 5/6 window "full size" bus. NOT the van chassis/small shorties: I want the height, tires, engine/trans, and durability of the big busses, just as short as possible. Essentially, this will be my "van" build.

Essentially, I want as overpowered and underweight bus I can find.

-------------

Are you shopping for a second bus or a replacement for the other one?
Do you still have the one that had a leaking roof and broken windows? (Did you fix the leaks?)

Your previous posts ask about the most solar / battery capacity, 1000 gallon water tanks, biggest engine and smallest bus. A surveyor of extremes. A surveyor of our regrets & improvements, as well. BTW, Did you 'cut out the mold', yet?

Please tell us your answers... respond to some of your own surveys, from your previous posts. We don't receive any feedback from our input. (Tit for tat.)

Will you update us about your build? Share your experience, strength & hope....

Did you ever install the gifted 48v solar panels or the grey/black tank level sensors? What size Cu did you install for the DC cable replacement?

I'm looking forward to reading more about the progress of your build and seeing photos of your accomplishments. I love to show off photos of my hard work but I also like to cheer on the next guy, too.

 

[Albatross]

Looking for a bus that is short + strong engine/trans, all mechanical.

What's shortest + strongest busses you know of?

Looking for a 5/6 window "full size" bus. NOT the van chassis/small shorties: I want the height, tires, engine/trans, and durability of the big busses, just as short as possible. Essentially, this will be my "van" build.

Essentially, I want as overpowered and underweight bus I can find. Ex. 5 window with Cummins 8.3 paired to Alisson MD-3060/6. Autochains, lock up torque converter, trans retarder would be an absolute bonus. (not sure if trans retarders are ever in combination with lock up torque converters).

You're wanting something that does not exist, to the best of my knowledge. Mostly because shorties are primarily built for economy rather than being a brute. Shorties are really only used for special-needs, weird routes without a whole lot of kids, and really, really small school districts. And the overwhelming majority of them will prefer a van-body to a proper diesel, as they're usually easier on fuel and much easier to maintain.



I know that a Mini-bird comes kind of close, with a 24' length (basically an extended-cab full-bed 1-ton pickup with Medium-duty suspension and steering) but I think mine is something like an 11 or 13 -window bus. The other fault with a mini-bird is that they came with either a gasser 350, 454, or the infamous Detroit-by-Chevy 6.2L or 6.5L diesels, which kind of feel more like a gas when you're driving them and are famous for having no power whatsoever. Fortunately, with the size of the bay and the frame-rail spacing, you can generally fit almost anything you want inside of it, so a re-power is a definite possibility.



The other option I could imagine seems like it would take a lot more effort, but you could buy a bus with the front-end and drivetrain you want, and then shorten the frame as well as the body. Not my cup of tea, but definitely seems like the kind of thing that could be more attractive to a welder/metal-worker who's more confident of their welding skills than their mechanical abilities. Of course, going this route would mean a whole lot of other things, like shortening the brake-lines, gas-lines, electrical wiring, as well as a custom-length drive-shaft. Doing this with a Big-Bus, however, would also likely mean that you'd likely be able to wind up with an HD frame and suspension components instead of a MD chassis.

 

[Mercuric Mind]

I kind of want to buy a Kenworth front end, and replace the cab with a bus, and chop it short.

That would be a cool project!

 

[NWOleman]

My bus. Seriously though. International 1988 all mechanical. DT 466 engine is perfect for a bus the size you are talking about. Only thing that I would want mechanically different is to have a P Pump on my motor. Allison MT643 has lockup yet all mechanical. International S 1800 series buses in the 80's up till 95-96 are mechanical engines.

 

[cadillackid]

My bus. Seriously though. International 1988 all mechanical. DT 466 engine is perfect for a bus the size you are talking about. Only thing that I would want mechanically different is to have a P Pump on my motor. Allison MT643 has lockup yet all mechanical. International S 1800 series buses in the 80's up till 95-96 are mechanical engines.

columbus city had a bunch of them too.. i wanted a couple but they unfortunately EPA'd them so they were destroyed.. finding short busses all mechanical is tough these days.. when I got my shorties no one wanted them.. it was all about big busses.. now everyone wants short ones so they get snatchedup and the prices are high

 

[#1FordFan]

…..

Essentially, I want as overpowered and


Where to find and look for these? Where would these types of busses be used? Mountainous regions, but any idea specific schools, regions, areas to check? It would make sense to have very powerful engine paired to strong trans and retarder/torque converter for long descents.



(ATTACHED PIC AND VIDEO):

Here is type of bus I'm thinking for an example. Chuck Cassady featured these buses in a youtube video ("Bought 3 tow aways"). The 3 busses included a 7 window, a 5 window but "full size" bus, and a true 5 window van chassis shorty. He drove 7 window back from a Northern CA school district and mentioned all the driving features it has. It piqued my curiosity of busses with those features. The 7 window he was driving (and implied for the short 5.5 window) in video has MBE 900 6.4L paired to Allison MD3060, cruise, center mounted fuel tank, some sort of engine brake/retarder, and a cool remote starter under the hood for starting interlock issues. If these busses came with that much engine/trans, I assume there's got to be others like it out there. An all mechanical Cummins 8.3/MD3066 is possible. Hard to search for it, because only full 40ft buses tend to come up.

We have one just like you describe where I work.
It is currently used to haul band instruments. NOT FOR SALE. I drove myself a few weeks ago
It’s a great bus Except for ONE THING.
The ride is terrible. Even though it has air ride rear axle.
I always said it was as short as a pogo stick is wide.

 

[Tin Roadtube Vagrant]

When OEM is spec'in a straight truck chassis the rules of build are written in stone. Axle, trans, length, tandem vs single, HP rating and engine size are all equated by the OEM and presented to the salesman as a boxed and wrapped cookie cutter system. At our truck dealership we would special order trucks occasionally, but the details were seldom "out of the box" like you want to find.

To get a real hot rod power wagon bus you'd have to chop a tandem axle truck. It's not as horrible as it sounds to do. We used to reduce tandem straight trucks to a tractor in 16-20 hours.

Friend of mine who runs Wild Heavy Haul in Georgia had a 460HP MACK CV713 tractor with a 300" wheel base. Thing was insane long for a tractor. Oil well "Kill" Truck with a well-kill system floating on that long chassis behind cab. If you popped the screws out of the front and rear axles, move the rear axle ahead and used the front frame holes to rebolt rear in..... BAM, be a total hitch ripper. Just a little plumbing and driveshaft cut. Cut off the frame wherever you please. Now, a'course you're running one axle where two should be... and 460 HP...... so you'd have to drive it like it's yours and not your buddies. There's surprisingly little holding a bus body on, and frame spreads don't vary too much in the Class 8 standardization.

Good LUCK!

 

[cadillackid]

When OEM is spec'in a straight truck chassis the rules of build are written in stone. Axle, trans, length, tandem vs single, HP rating and engine size are all equated by the OEM and presented to the salesman as a boxed and wrapped cookie cutter system. At our truck dealership we would special order trucks occasionally, but the details were seldom "out of the box" like you want to find.

To get a real hot rod power wagon bus you'd have to chop a tandem axle truck. It's not as horrible as it sounds to do. We used to reduce tandem straight trucks to a tractor in 16-20 hours.

Friend of mine who runs Wild Heavy Haul in Georgia had a 460HP MACK CV713 tractor with a 300" wheel base. Thing was insane long for a tractor. Oil well "Kill" Truck with a well-kill system floating on that long chassis behind cab. If you popped the screws out of the front and rear axles, move the rear axle ahead and used the front frame holes to rebolt rear in..... BAM, be a total hitch ripper. Just a little plumbing and driveshaft cut. Cut off the frame wherever you please. Now, a'course you're running one axle where two should be... and 460 HP...... so you'd have to drive it like it's yours and not your buddies. There's surprisingly little holding a bus body on, and frame spreads don't vary too much in the Class 8 standardization.

Good LUCK!

from what i am told by people in the school bus business, the bus body is designed to move on the chassis as an energy absorption mechanism during a crash.. even fractions of a second that the bus body may stop just a little slower than the chassis can save lives in a major crash... its also a design for a high side impact crash.. (bus is struck high).. so that the body deflects and flies away from the crash vs being planted where the striking vehicle can keep plowing into the bus with resistance from the tires and weight of the chassis..

 

[Tin Roadtube Vagrant]

from what i am told by people in the school bus business, the bus body is designed to move on the chassis as an energy absorption mechanism during a crash.. even fractions of a second that the bus body may stop just a little slower than the chassis can save lives in a major crash... its also a design for a high side impact crash.. (bus is struck high).. so that the body deflects and flies away from the crash vs being planted where the striking vehicle can keep plowing into the bus with resistance from the tires and weight of the chassis..

Yeah, I could see that being the case. The fuel tank impact cribs on these things are a real engineering marvel, but the body looks like it could fly off on a hard bump.

 

[Iceni John]

I'm still slightly confused with this thread's title "Shortest + strongest bus made?", but then with discussion of engine power. Strength and power are NOT the same! Strength is the ability of something to resist deformation or breakage; power is work over time. If you want strength, buy a Crown or Gillig, with heavy-duty Class 8 -like frame rails and bodywork welded on to make a massively strong integral structure. If you want power, nothing beats their 14 liters of Cummins Big Cam grunt, with over 1000 lb/ft and 290 HP (or easily much more) to effortlessly climb hills: i've been in a 3-axle Crown climbing Cajon Pass at almost 70 MPH and needing to slow for the cars! You simply won't get that level of performance and build quality from flimsy newer disposabuses. If you also want something short, then some DIY will be needed...

Actually, a friend of mine has the ideal bus for you. It's one of only two Gillig shorty buses built on full military-spec International Harvester chassis, complete with doubled frame rails and top-loading differentials (yes, it's true 4WD, and has military all-terrain tires). Unfortunately it's not for sale, and never will be, but it's a remarkable example of an overbuilt heavy-duty school bus.

John

 

[flattracker]

I agree with Iceni John. My "new Crown" has 425 hp Cummins big cam engine. It is built like an OTR truck. Maybe you should look for a 2 1/2 ton military truck to convert. They can be shortened. Be aware that some states don't like to register them. Newer military vehicles have automatic transmissions. Bring cubic money to get the best.

 

[nikitis]

I agree with Iceni John. My "new Crown" has 425 hp Cummins big cam engine. It is built like an OTR truck. Maybe you should look for a 2 1/2 ton military truck to convert. They can be shortened. Be aware that some states don't like to register them. Newer military vehicles have automatic transmissions. Bring cubic money to get the best.

If you are chopping them up though, you can always register them as an "Experimental" vehicle and get a new VIN for it.

 

[Tin Roadtube Vagrant]

Some remanufactured/fabricated on-road stuff can be approved by the state without showing up at an office. I built a travel trailer ice shack and got a vin assigned to it by showing a pile of cost receipts and then using a DOT inspection sheet from our road fleet, doing the inspection myself (major conflict of interest there, but if someone gets killed, I'm in prison.. so), and sending it in. New vin plate and two rivets with "WI" stamped in the heads came in the mail.

Night Train was inspected by my county police detective neighbor. State took it, G2G. Lotta work space built into legislation if you dig into it.

 

[nikitis]

If you label it experimental you don't even have to meet EPA requirements as there's been already been case law precedent done to protect innovation. No one expects an experimental car to meet all Diesel EPA requirements during development and testing. But if you ever decide to manufacture the car it must meet EPA requirements. "Experimetal" is a special category.

You do have to meet Safety standards though like headlights, brakes etc.