Should I buy? Help me notice red flags

[NebSgird]

Hello folks! Long time lurker, first time poster!

My wife is getting antsy about starting our build, and we came across this bus in AZ. We're still pretty new to the auto mechanic side of this world, so I figured I would open it to you kind people and help us notice any red flags. We're hoping to head down and inspect it (we're in Utah, so not too far) in the near future. Roll it a few miles, dipstick test, kick the tires, etc.

What else should I be looking for?

It's a 2003 Blue Bird rear engine with a Cummins 8.3L and MD3060 transmission.

Here's the posting. Please no one snipe this out from under me if it is a good one

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[nikitis]

The choice of bus seems good. Right transmission, right year.

Take it for a test drive. See if the brakes work. Look at the steer tires. Is the tread worn evenly from side to side. If not it likely will need kingpin work. It is possible to do it yourself but not easy and requires making expensive tools or buying them. Can't rent them usually. Mechanic work on that job is like 5-6k.

Does it crank quickly with 2-3 seconds or does it take 15 seconds to crank? it is colder so it may actually take longer to crank and not really be an issue. (Better to test that in summer)

Check the rear axle. Is there grease all over everything caked on or just at joints. (Indication of a worn pinion seal etc).

Check undercarriage for massive rust. Some rust may be present but is it thick and pitted everywhere or just some slight surface rust? Some surface rust is okay but if it's pitted and thick, I'd avoid unless you are good at replacing and welding in metal.

Just some things to consider. I'm sure others have other things they'd check.

 

[NebSgird]

Take it for a test drive. See if the brakes work. Look at the steer tires. Is the tread worn evenly from side to side. If not it likely will need kingpin work. It is possible to do it yourself but not easy and requires making expensive tools or buying them. Can't rent them usually. Mechanic work on that job is like 5-6k.

I wouldn't have thought to check the uneven tire wear. Thanks for that and all your other suggestions!

 

[ToniB34]

Insurance! If it’s a self-converted bus it’s getting harder to find insurance. I had absolutely no problems when I bought my bus in 2020. The mistake I made was cancelling insurance once I bought 10 acres and thought I’d spend the rest of my life on the land. Fast forward two years and I wanted to travel again. I COULD NOT find an insurance company to insure the bus again since they no longer insure self conversions. I first went back to my original company, but they’ve changed their policies since the original in 2020. I called around to about 30 companies and couldn’t find anyone. This is gonna really hit reselling school buses hard, or at least those that are self converted. If you buy a self converted school bus now the only thing it could be used for is a stationary home.

 

[#1FordFan]

#1 red flag on anything with a diesel is if when you go to inspect the vehicle it is already running or fully warmed up.
Cold starts tell you a lot about the internals on a diesel engine.
Don’t worry too much about tire condition , most bus garage’s do not sell buses with a good set of tires.

 

[ewo1]

Pull the dipstick, engine cold, wipe it with a clean paper towel, check for metal shavings.
Engine running at operating temp, again pull the dipstick while engine running, you are looking for an excessive amount of blue smoke. If you see it , run away, engine has alot of blowby.

You really need a code scanner but you want to see if the engine computer is storing trouble codes.

Any sign or smell of coolant, issues need attention!

Brakes...doing a brake job is not cheap! look at the backside of the rear tires, sometime the rear backing plate to the brake drums are not there and you can visually see the amount of brake lining left.

A spray bottle with soapy water..after you turn the engine off and air brake gauge on the dash shows 110 lbs, go under the bus and spray down all the air hose connections you can find, especially in/on/near the rear, brake chambers!

Air bags, look for cracks, especially towards the base plate of the air bags. Not a hard job to replace if you DIY it, pay a shop...get ready for a big $$ ouch!

Finally, google how to do a D.O.T. air brake test. you want to test the system for leaks, the D.o.t. way.

 

[ewo1]

Just took a look at the FB post, nice looking bus but in my cheap a$$ mind, they are asking too much.
also, no a/c?

Before you pull the trigger, grab the vin number and check to see if you can get it insured. Do this b4 you buy it or you might get stuck with a boat anchor on wheels because you can't get it insured!

 

[nikitis]

Brakes...doing a brake job is not cheap! look at the backside of the rear tires, sometime the rear backing plate to the brake drums are not there and you can visually see the amount of brake lining left.

A spray bottle with soapy water..after you turn the engine off and air brake gauge on the dash shows 110 lbs, go under the bus and spray down all the air hose connections you can find, especially in/on/near the rear, brake chambers!

I wouldn't let this stop me from buying a bus. You can do a brake job at your house easily enough and cheaply enough doing it yourself.

Just make sure the bus CAN stop before you buy it. Take it on a test drive as you want it to be safe enough to get home.

My bus stopped just fine on testing it, but when I got home I realized I only had 2 working Air brake chambers, but the bus still stopped just fine with 2 of the 4. I drove home 500 miles like that.

Doing the DOT air system check is a must and must pass though. Mine did. Pump down test is what it's called. If that works, the air system is working well enough to drive it home, if it can pass that, and stop, you should be fine to drive it home, just be sure to give yourself a lot of runway and brake early on your trip.

 

[ewo1]

I wouldn't let this stop me from buying a bus. You can do a brake job at your house easily enough and cheaply enough doing it yourself.

Just make sure the bus CAN stop before you buy it. Take it on a test drive as you want it to be safe enough to get home.

For a newbie who has to ask these types of questions, braking system condition could become quite expensive.
Aside from brake shoes and maybe pancakes for the brake chambers. heat damaged drums, cracked drums, frozen slide pins and rusted out disc calipers or cracked rotors that are replaced by a shop can run one thousands....

Your right though, you and I would have little issues in taking care of this and it would not stop us from buying a good chassis but the newbie who does not know...and cannot do it themselves, should be armed with this info so that the very least can make an informed decision and maybe use this to bring the price of the bus into reality.

To the OP, buying a bus without basic knowledge can be quite challenging. your doing the right thing asking questions but please, continue doing so !

Here are a few videos that can shed a bit more perspective..

 

[nikitis]

I only mentioned it cause the DIY option wasn't mentioned.

And of course you are correct as well. ANY work done by a service person is going to be expensive today. Labor is high, and 30% markup on all parts.

 

[NebSgird]

Thank you all for your fantastic suggestions! We ended up letting the original bus that prompted this post go because we noticed it didn't have any underskirt storage (something we've deemed a necessity as a family of 5), but we're slated to go look at two surplus busses from a local school district and will absolutely be taking all your suggestions into our inspections!

We'll let you know how it goes.

 

[NebSgird]

Insurance! If it’s a self-converted bus it’s getting harder to find insurance. I had absolutely no problems when I bought my bus in 2020. The mistake I made was cancelling insurance once I bought 10 acres and thought I’d spend the rest of my life on the land. Fast forward two years and I wanted to travel again. I COULD NOT find an insurance company to insure the bus again since they no longer insure self conversions. I first went back to my original company, but they’ve changed their policies since the original in 2020. I called around to about 30 companies and couldn’t find anyone. This is gonna really hit reselling school buses hard, or at least those that are self converted. If you buy a self converted school bus now the only thing it could be used for is a stationary home.

How true is this? I haven't looked too far into this side of the project, been focused on the title/registration logistics thus far.

 

[s2mikon]

Mine has been insured since 2013 and they wanted pictures and had a list of non insurable items. Wood stove, roof raises and roof racks. Fast forward during covid and I was doing some major power train repairs, Allison with retarder, and so I didn't renew. You were not allowed to use most of the camping places anyway so I spent my time making repairs. When I went to renew they wanted more pictures than the first time just to make sure I hadn't done a roof raise, wood stove or roof rack. They even wanted more pictures of the inside too. We're down to 2 companies now, correct me if I'm wrong, but when we loose them we will all have some nice diesel powered garden sheds to look at. If you keep it registered as a commercial vehicle there is a lot more choices, but much more expensive. You will also have to have a CDL to drive it and annual inspections to deal with and fuel use tax filings. It's too late for me now so I'm hoping I can drive it another 10 years before I go to a rest home or kick the bucket.

 

[s2mikon]

@ewo1 What Grease Monkey is showing here is mainly the result of poor driving habits. I have followed these RV owners down grades many times, not down shifting and slowing down and pulling toads thinking that supplemental braking isn't needed. If the sign is posted all trucks 35 mph on down grade, you need to do it. You have to slow down before you get on the hill.
A couple of years ago after covid was over we went over the hill to El Paso and it it is marked trucks 35 mph so I slow down and drop to 3rd gear and apply some retarder and I'm following a Walmart truck going 35 mph and here comes a fool in a Newmar coach pulling a GMC 1500 pickup on the back rolling 60-65 mph and then stands on the brakes. I could smell cooked brakes for the next 7 miles. This is the kind of unsafe stupid driving habits that cracks rotors, drums and burns brake pad materials and cooks wheel seals. Then there were the bad repairs done to add icing to the cake. @ewo1 Thanks for posting those links.

 

[NebSgird]

Mine has been insured since 2013 and they wanted pictures and had a list of non insurable items. Wood stove, roof raises and roof racks...When I went to renew they wanted more pictures than the first time just to make sure I hadn't done a roof raise, wood stove or roof rack. They even wanted more pictures of the inside too. We're down to 2 companies now, correct me if I'm wrong, but when we loose them we will all have some nice diesel powered garden sheds to look at. If you keep it registered as a commercial vehicle there is a lot more choices, but much more expensive. You will also have to have a CDL to drive it and annual inspections to deal with and fuel use tax filings. It's too late for me now so I'm hoping I can drive it another 10 years before I go to a rest home or kick the bucket.

Well this is a major damper on my plans. Yes, a roof raise and a retitle as an RV were in my future. We were planning on traveling internationally, so keeping it as commercial is likely not an option without incurring HEAVY import/export fees at every border crossing.

What are the two companies you have in mind here?

EDIT: I should mention I was planning on paying for a CDL anyway, so that's not a problem.

 

[nikitis]

Get it insured first, with pictures etc. Take all of the pictures 360 degrees around it before modification. This will get you on the road legally.

The downside is that if you do wreck, if discovered it was roof raised, it could be grounds for not paying out. This is a grey area many of us take because we want to drive our bus legally on the roads, and it does allow you to do this.

Another trick is, most insurers once you own a single bus, if you buy a second bus don't often ask for pictures etc and will just insure it since you've already been insuring a single bus with no issues. Some will buy a broken bus for like $500, insure it with pictures etc, and 3 months later add a second bus.

It's all shady, but we're forced to do these things because they won't legally provide us a non-shady path to do our modifications and insure us, and the alternatives are to not do a roof raise which isn't acceptable to many, or drive it plain without modifications which makes it not worth it for many.

While a grey area, it is a way you can legally get insured, just know the possibilities of what can happen before doing so.

 

[ewo1]

Well this is a major damper on my plans. Yes, a roof raise and a retitle as an RV were in my future. We were planning on traveling internationally, so keeping it as commercial is likely not an option without incurring HEAVY import/export fees at every border crossing.

What are the two companies you have in mind here?

EDIT: I should mention I was planning on paying for a CDL anyway, so that's not a problem.

when traveling as a tourist in your private vehicle, there are no "import" fees. typically you'll get a travel permit, good for usually 30 days, then the vehicle must leave the country. some countries you can renew the permit, others might make you exit and then return the next day.
Import fees are typically "charged" when it is intended for the vehicle to stay permanently which then "nationalizes" that vehicle to the new country.

 

[DRoberts123]

I went through Farmers and they subbed it out to progressive... I told my farmers agent (local agent) What i planned to do... so they gave me commercial insurance on it first to get the bus home and asked if it had a roof top deck or a wood stove... I told them now because it doesn't and I don't plan on adding them

they told me once i converted it I would need to send pics...

So... me being me, I don't want to do a bunch of work and then not be able to use the bus.. so because I am in the digital art space, I used Chatgpt to mock up the bus just about how i wanted it... the windows are not how I actually plan to lay them out, but close enough for what i need at the moment

I sent this off to my insurance agent and asked them if this was a problem to raise the roof like this.

I am adding the screen shot of the answer form the agent.

Dont really know if it helps, but at least it looks like i have permission from the insurance co

vr

Doug

 

[s2mikon]

So was this Progressive insurance? I know that Farmers subs out to progressive and they told me NO motor home conversions. I'v been with Farmers for over 30 years with a good driving record.

 

[DRoberts123]

So was this Progressive insurance? I know that Farmers subs out to progressive and they told me NO motor home conversions. I'v been with Farmers for over 30 years with a good driving record.

I called my local farmers agent to get insurance and they subbed me out to progressive.