Solar Water Shower System

[Twigg-SKO]

Oooooh .... just like a solar oven - in a way. A bit different but the concept seems the same. Wow. I was totally thinking the box needed to be completely clear which made me think that I'd need to find a way to seal the edges on all four corners of the lexan "box."

This makes much more sense. Wow, sometimes I do wonder about myself. Yes I like this idea.

It can, as you found, get complicated for a full-size domestic system with a 100 gallon storage tank and all the valving.

You would be looking at something more simple for a bus, although it would still be better to use a good heat-transfer fluid and a small pump to move it around. The pump can be on both a small solar panel and a timer. You only want it to run when the sun is shining, so using a solar pump makes perfect sense.

I'd suggest a 10 gallon tank would work, 15 or 20 might be better.

On the other hand, it doesn't cost much to run an instant water-heater either.

 

[o1marc]

Oooooh .... just like a solar oven - in a way. A bit different but the concept seems the same. Wow. I was totally thinking the box needed to be completely clear which made me think that I'd need to find a way to seal the edges on all four corners of the lexan "box."

This makes much more sense. Wow, sometimes I do wonder about myself. Yes I like this idea.

I'm glad that pic was posted because I was confused on your seam issue and thought that you might be thinking the whole box needs to be clear. Roach explained the basics, the box doesn't need to be much deeper than the hose width. If that coil is 100' of 1" hose, it will hold over 4 gallons of scalding hot water. Mixed with cold to be comfortably hot enough for a shower should yield enough hot water for a decent shower.

 

[Robin97396]

Wow, and I was wondering how wide this box is going to be if there needed to be seams in 4x8 sheets. I was expecting quite a big box. It's all clear now.

Maybe I'm not looking at this the right way. Solar water heater require extensive fiddling. Sometimes your water heater will have scalding water in it and other times it will be warm water. It's not dependable so you end up bathing out of a bucket anyway.

Even solar panels don't really meet your needs, it retrains you to use electrical power very economically. That's why generator backup is so important in reality.

It's easier to go old school, but that depends on your situation and location. Wow, and I was wondering how wide this box is going to be if there needed to be seams in 4x8 sheets. I was expecting quite a big box. It's all clear now.

Maybe I'm not looking at this the right way. Solar water heater require extensive fiddling. Sometimes your water heater will have scalding water in it and other times it will be warm water. It's not dependable so you end up bathing out of a bucket anyway.

Even solar panels don't really meet your needs, it retrains you to use electrical power very economically. That's why generator backup is so important in reality.

It's easier to go old school, but that depends on your situation and location.

 

[Gdog 5651]

Wow, and I was wondering how wide this box is going to be if there needed to be seams in 4x8 sheets. I was expecting quite a big box. It's all clear now.

Maybe I'm not looking at this the right way. Solar water heater require extensive fiddling. Sometimes your water heater will have scalding water in it and other times it will be warm water. It's not dependable so you end up bathing out of a bucket anyway.

Even solar panels don't really meet your needs, it retrains you to use electrical power very economically. That's why generator backup is so important in reality.

It's easier to go old school, but that depends on your situation and location. Wow, and I was wondering how wide this box is going to be if there needed to be seams in 4x8 sheets. I was expecting quite a big box. It's all clear now.

Maybe I'm not looking at this the right way. Solar water heater require extensive fiddling. Sometimes your water heater will have scalding water in it and other times it will be warm water. It's not dependable so you end up bathing out of a bucket anyway.

Even solar panels don't really meet your needs, it retrains you to use electrical power very economically. That's why generator backup is so important in reality.

It's easier to go old school, but that depends on your situation and location.

Huh?

 

[roach711]

If I was reading it correctly the OP was thinking of installing a 4" PVC pipe around the edge of the roof. The box would need to be just a bit wider than the width of the pipe and quite long. That would require some seams in the lexan.

 

[o1marc]

If I was reading it correctly the OP was thinking of installing a 4" PVC pipe around the edge of the roof. The box would need to be just a bit wider than the width of the pipe and quite long. That would require some seams in the lexan.

You are correct, so that's like 95' of 4" pipe. You could build a 6" box all around it, but I'm not seeing the payoff in practicality.

 

[Hvbuzz]

Oookay! Let's talk solar showers - may we?

I'm wondering if anyone has thoughts on this setup. Have you used it yourself? Do you know people who have? What is your feedback? What is the feedback from your friends/family who have used or are using it?

Thanks for your thoughts and feedback in advance - sincerely! Without Skoolie.net and the community involvement here - I would be lost. Thanks so much!

I've posted this picture before, and it always brings up the top heavy debate... All I can say is it is a very old RAGBRAI conversion, 18 years or so. You can't see it,but there is another 4" pipe on the pass side too. It's one of my friends. They have never had weight issues. Some day I plan on doing even a larger pipe size. But my plan is a u-shape off the back. Works well for solar showers.

Untitled by Hvbuzz, on Flickr

 

[msearslive]

If I was reading it correctly the OP was thinking of installing a 4" PVC pipe around the edge of the roof. The box would need to be just a bit wider than the width of the pipe and quite long. That would require some seams in the lexan.

All:

Yes, this is exactly what I was thinking. Apologies for all of the confusion on my part. But now I believe we're all on the same page regarding my original line of thought.

I was thinking of taking the 4" pipe all the way around the edge of the bus like Roach has mentioned. In this case he is right on with my line of thought on what I was calling the "seams" in the plexiglass or lexan. Any thoughts on that if I went this route?

As Marc points out, would it be practical to have a corresponding box to hold the piping in all the way around the bus as well? I've actually never seen any of these 4" black pipe solar water heater systems in boxes before. I do like the idea though as it has already been mentioned that it would ideally lock in some of that heat.

I am wondering how good of a job it'd do though of keeping the heat in. Keep in mind, I do not plan on being in cool-to-cold temps. If it's beneath 50 degrees where I'm at - something went wrong and I must be broken down somewhere. I'm trying to chase the heat and stay in warmer climate. 50 degrees would be pushing it for me. I fully in tend on being waaaay down in Florida during the dead of winter. Maybe California if it's warm there. As of the time of this posting it is in the 70's in Florida just about anywhere you go, but it's in the 40s and 50s in California. (I actually find this odd. I thought it was pretty much always sunny and warm in Cali. I've never been to either state at all so I'm just looking at weather temperature maps.)

At any rate, anywhere close to 70's and above is my ideal dream places to be all throughout the year. If it's warmer than that - bring it on! I've just spent too many years in the midwest cooler temps of Fall/Winter seasons, and I'm over it it!

So, I'd like feedback and thoughts on what direction you might take if you were going to build this for your own bus. Would you do the hose wound up in a box like we've seen in this thread? Or would you run the 4" piping secured along the edge of the bus with the solar panels? Ultimately, I know I have to make the best decision for myself on "Wilson" our short bus, but the opinions and feedback definitely weighs in on that decision making process.

HvBuzz's picture of his RABGRAI bus is exactly what I was thinking. Only, in a box to trap the heat if it's practical and feasible.

HzBuzz, are you from Iowa???

 

[roach711]

Sealing seams is easy. A little silicone seal or Henry 212 will seal them up nicely.

 

[msearslive]

Sealing seams is easy. A little silicone seal or Henry 212 will seal them up nicely.

Roach, do you have any idea of what the temp of the water is in your tank you showed me a pic of? Trying to determine what might be a better way to go. The pic you posted of the hose in the plexiglass-covered box seems to me would heat up much quicker, and as I believe you pointed out, you could just have that mix with your existing water tank to cool it off a bit as I imagine you're right that it'd be pretty hot after sitting in the sun all day. Possibly too hot to actually take a comfortable shower in.

Just toying with all the different vantage points and ways I could do this. Otherwise, it'd be the 4" pipes all the way around the edge of the bus, and I'd imagine that water wouldn't be nearly as hot as in the hose concept you showed. Without having it set up, I have no way of really knowing. It's still too cold yet here to even both trying this experiment here in Iowa as it's in the upper 30's to low 40s.

 

[Robin97396]

From an engineering standpoint I like the idea of using 1" black waterline, but I'm wondering how much black waterline it would take to equal the volume of a 4" black pipe. It seems like the smaller line would heat up faster. I'm wondering if the 4" pipe is a one use thing per day.
Not trying to throw a wrench into things, just wondering if anyone knows. I like this idea better than solar panels.

 

[msearslive]

From an engineering standpoint I like the idea of using 1" black waterline, but I'm wondering how much black waterline it would take to equal the volume of a 4" black pipe. It seems like the smaller line would heat up faster. I'm wondering if the 4" pipe is a one use thing per day.
Not trying to throw a wrench into things, just wondering if anyone knows. I like this idea better than solar panels.

Good afternoon, Robin!

Just to make sure I haven't explained myself incorrectly; I don't intend to use the solar panels in any way to heat up my water supply for showers/dishes. This will all be done via the sun heating the black pipes or the black hose (whichever we end up going with). I won't have any sort of water heater other than the sun itself.

At this point, as I plan the build, I'm trying to determine what would be the ideal way to heat that water supply. 4" tubing? or a black hose a solar/sun heated box like Roach had posted a picture of on Page 2 of this thread.

 

[o1marc]

From an engineering standpoint I like the idea of using 1" black waterline, but I'm wondering how much black waterline it would take to equal the volume of a 4" black pipe. It seems like the smaller line would heat up faster. I'm wondering if the 4" pipe is a one use thing per day.
Not trying to throw a wrench into things, just wondering if anyone knows. I like this idea better than solar panels.

4" is 12.56 times larger in volume than a 1"

 

[Robin97396]

I was just saying I like the solar hot water idea better than a solar electrical system. Changing sunlight to electrical power to heat water is kind of redundant, like the 12 volt feed to a invertor then to a 12 volt charger of some sort.

I still say there's day when you'll end up taking a lukewarm bath out of a bucket.

So from what I'm reading it would take 12 passes of the 1" line to equal the volume of the 4" pipe?

Does the water just sit there in the pipe waiting to be used or does it cycle to a tank or something?

 

[msearslive]

Actually, this has been a topic that Carolyn and I have discussed. We are implementing it now even though we live in our traditional home, but thought it'd be a good idea to try to actually practice some of this bus life living. Can't hurt right?

So right now we are taking showers every other day. On the off-shower days (if you will), we are filling the little bathroom sink with warm'ish water (intentionally not hot) and we're just kind of "wet-wiping"? It might sound gross or uncleanly to some, but it really isn't that bad.

I generally have pretty oily skin which I hate - and I read recently that if you don't take hot showers all the time and even take less frequent full-on showers/baths that it could possibly help alleviate some of that oiliness. Hopefully that's true!

 

[msearslive]

Does the water just sit there in the pipe waiting to be used or does it cycle to a tank or something?

I've asked that previously. Haven't gotten any straight answer just yet, but hopefully someone will share some further insight on that. It was one of the concerns with having so much water in the enclosed tubes.

That said, I'm guesstimating that the setup I am looking into doing with the tubes running all the way around the edge of the bus will hold somewhere between 15-20 gallons of water. If that's the case than I would really imagine that we won't have to worry about any bacteria growing or anything like that from stagnant water. If we're both taking 5-7 minute showers every other day, and then using a little bit more when we do dishes or wash hands, etc; I'm hoping that the water will be being moved around and swapped out with enough frequency that it won't get nasty.

I don't know this though and it is certainly something I want to look into. Last thing I want is some nasty or stinky water from bacteria in those pipes. I was talking to a friend of mine and he said you can get chlorine tabs you can put in tanks of water to help with that. I'm pretty sure chlorine isn't safe though for the environment so I don't know that I want to do that.

I have to say I am leaning more and more to an idea that Roach (and I believe Marc) also had. Kind of combination between the two. Roach had posted the picture of a box with the hose just laid in a circle. Logic tells me that the water in this setup would heat up much faster (at least I think it would) and then if I had a 10-15 gallon tank of water inside the bus, it could possibly be circulated that way and providing hot water for the showers.

So much to research and learn tho!

 

[o1marc]

I was just saying I like the solar hot water idea better than a solar electrical system. Changing sunlight to electrical power to heat water is kind of redundant, like the 12 volt feed to a invertor then to a 12 volt charger of some sort.

I still say there's day when you'll end up taking a lukewarm bath out of a bucket.

So from what I'm reading it would take 12 passes of the 1" line to equal the volume of the 4" pipe?

Does the water just sit there in the pipe waiting to be used or does it cycle to a tank or something?

Yes, the volume of 12-1" pipes will fit in the 4" pipe. I'm still trying to figure out how the solar shower piping actually works. You obviously need some sort of pump to circulate the water. You need to try and tie it into the cold supply or you may find yourself scalded by the water coming out of that solar pipe. You need an attachment to supply water to the line. You're getting into a pretty intricate design if you're adding hot water holding tanks. Then your holding tank needs something to maintain heat in the tank. POS water heaters just seem so effortless.

 

[roach711]

Roach, do you have any idea of what the temp of the water is in your tank you showed me a pic of?

Our under-bed tank is cold water only. The pump draws from the tank and feeds the sink, shower and water heater.

 

[o1marc]

I've asked that previously. Haven't gotten any straight answer just yet, but hopefully someone will share some further insight on that. It was one of the concerns with having so much water in the enclosed tubes.

That said, I'm guesstimating that the setup I am looking into doing with the tubes running all the way around the edge of the bus will hold somewhere between 15-20 gallons of water. If that's the case than I would really imagine that we won't have to worry about any bacteria growing or anything like that from stagnant water. If we're both taking 5-7 minute showers every other day, and then using a little bit more when we do dishes or wash hands, etc; I'm hoping that the water will be being moved around and swapped out with enough frequency that it won't get nasty.

I don't know this though and it is certainly something I want to look into. Last thing I want is some nasty or stinky water from bacteria in those pipes. I was talking to a friend of mine and he said you can get chlorine tabs you can put in tanks of water to help with that. I'm pretty sure chlorine isn't safe though for the environment so I don't know that I want to do that.

I have to say I am leaning more and more to an idea that Roach (and I believe Marc) also had. Kind of combination between the two. Roach had posted the picture of a box with the hose just laid in a circle. Logic tells me that the water in this setup would heat up much faster (at least I think it would) and then if I had a 10-15 gallon tank of water inside the bus, it could possibly be circulated that way and providing hot water for the showers.

So much to research and learn tho!

20 gallons will fill approx. 31' of 4" pipe. You would need around 400' of 1" pipe for 20 gallons.

 

[msearslive]

Yes, the volume of 12-1" pipes will fit in the 4" pipe. I'm still trying to figure out how the solar shower piping actually works. You obviously need some sort of pump to circulate the water. You need to try and tie it into the cold supply or you may find yourself scalded by the water coming out of that solar pipe. You need an attachment to supply water to the line. You're getting into a pretty intricate design if you're adding hot water holding tanks. Then your holding tank needs something to maintain heat in the tank. POS water heaters just seem so effortless.

I think (super scary) that if I understood Roach's posts that it works this way in the scenario I'm considering:

In the back of the bus under where our bed will be located there will be a cold water tank (or whatever temperature it gets to sitting in the bus which I can't imagine will be that warm). A water pump feed the water from that tank up some piping that leads up to the black 4" tubes (solar water heating system). That pipe would of course have to be feeding into the top of the pipe not the bottom. It fills the black 4" tubes up top. Sun heats the water in the black tubes. And then the water in those tubes can then be distributed to the sink and, in my case, the outside shower system.

IF I do have that right - there's still the question of how hot will this water get. I don't know of any other way to tell than to try it. The temp of that water will of course change here and there depending on how hot it gets outside.

Roach, can you confirm my understanding of this?