SOS: Crank no start after super cold night

[LilBusDude]

Hello all,

My 2002 E450 7.3 powerstroke will crank but will not start after a very cold night. There are no apparent leaks, and no DTC showing up. The Glow plug system seems like working. Something is draining my batteries very fast when i crank the engine, even when the batteries are connected to another running engine.

I have had a coolant leak from a freeze plug blow off that was fixed. And a UVCH pigtail shorting issue that was also fixed. Engine started fine when still warm the evening before that very cold night.

No unusual sound or smell or tail pipe smoke. Just an unusual rapid batterie draining.

Thermostat, Radiator, Tranny & Engine Oil, Coolant, Air filter, brand new. Gplugs, ICP sensor, CamShaft sensor, and UVCH less then 5k miles.

Still have to check fuel line at rear of passenger side valve cover to be sure. (Out of the "shop" until Saturday)

What else ??

Even though it's warm now it won't start since that night .. i'm stuck out here.

Could anyone point towards any direction ??

 

[Mr P]

I'll point you to the T444E repair tips topic. Since your engine is an International, look in that forum.

 

[ewo1]

Hello all,

My 2002 E450 7.3 powerstroke will crank but will not start after a very cold night. There are no apparent leaks, and no DTC showing up. The Glow plug system seems like working. Something is draining my batteries very fast when i crank the engine, even when the batteries are connected to another running engine.

I have had a coolant leak from a freeze plug blow off that was fixed. And a UVCH pigtail shorting issue that was also fixed. Engine started fine when still warm the evening before that very cold night.

No unusual sound or smell or tail pipe smoke. Just an unusual rapid batterie draining.

Thermostat, Radiator, Tranny & Engine Oil, Coolant, Air filter, brand new. Gplugs, ICP sensor, CamShaft sensor, and UVCH less then 5k miles.

Still have to check fuel line at rear of passenger side valve cover to be sure. (Out of the "shop" until Saturday)

What else ??

Even though it's warm now it won't start since that night .. i'm stuck out here.

Could anyone point towards any direction ??

Give it a quick shot of silicone lubricant, not ETHER/Starting fluid. See if she will start...

 

[Mr P]

^ Better to start with sound diagnostics than a band-aid starting fluid. IMO, a person who is a novice can easily do more harm than good with any starting fluid. And, no disrespect, I judge a person with low cranking speed and glows plugs that "'seem' to work" as a novice.

I hope the OP starts an educational process with the topic I referenced and the vids linked therein.

 

[LilBusDude]

Give it a quick shot of silicone lubricant, not ETHER/Starting fluid. See if she will start...

It will die in a split second after turning over, so i don't wish to try more or that.

Something is not doing it's job.
I want to figure out what before i get stranded of the side of the highway.

Will look into the t444e repair tips.

Though the GP's can easily be found functional or not with a multimetre. Changed them my self before doing UVCH. Had been working very fine so far. Anyways, will do my due diligence and home work. Will also do a 42 pin test again, just to make sure.

Just wondering if the symptoms discribed were ringing a bell to someone.

Thank you

 

[LilBusDude]

^ Better to start with sound diagnostics than a band-aid starting fluid. IMO, a person who is a novice can easily do more harm than good with any starting fluid. And, no disrespect, I judge a person with low cranking speed and glows plugs that "'seem' to work" as a novice.

I hope the OP starts an educational process with the topic I referenced and the vids linked therein.

Will also test GP's directly at the harness to be 100% sure.

What is "starting an OP" please ? I'm actually french and trying my best to pick up with technicalities

 

[Mr P]

I hope the "OP", that's the "Original Poster", you. :^) (It says so right over your avatar/bus pic.)

The "education" is what I hope you receive from the videos/tips in the topic on t444e repairs. I hope you gain knowledge to help solve current and future problems.

 

[ewo1]

^ Better to start with sound diagnostics than a band-aid starting fluid. IMO, a person who is a novice can easily do more harm than good with any starting fluid. And, no disrespect, I judge a person with low cranking speed and glows plugs that "'seem' to work" as a novice.

I hope the OP starts an educational process with the topic I referenced and the vids linked therein.

Very true, I only suggested the (band-aid) silicone spray/start attempt in hopes that she would just start up and then he could be on his way to a place where proper procedures can be done, calmly without stress. Not happening now so I guess he got some edumecating to do....

 

[LilBusDude]

Thanks ewo i did try the band aid, but it did not make the cut. I was edumecated enough though to try that, following strict procedure like letting the GP's cycle through for 5 minutes before quick spray and cranking.
Anyways, we always may educate a little more, doesn't hurt.
I do like our beloved Diesel Ron, just not finding what suites my issues here. Will dig more into it.
I guess i'll just go over the hole thing again
If any other lantern lights up, please send a little light this way.

BTW Mr P. This is perfect piece of education here : "The things that make a cold start easy are: correctly functioning glow plug system, fast cranking speed (healthy batteries and starter), and good compression."

Thanks for the link

 

[ewo1]

I wonder if that UVCH pigtail shorting issue you mentioned in your first post is causing your crank-no start issue. Have you visually inspected the connectors/crimps and pins for physical defects?

I ask only because I am searching/learning myself.... I am not a mechanic by trade but do enjoy spinning wrenches and fixing things... found this from a facebook post, guy had a crank no start like you, fixed the harness and claimed problem solved.

 

[LilBusDude]

Ooh yes big time. I actually layered some liquid tape on the pigtails, one wire got hot from flirting with a turbo stud and other side pig tail got schewed just enough to unshield 1 wire that could of been shorting before but definitely is not shorting anymore.

Or is it ?? I have thorouly inspected the wire harness and connectors multiple time. Again, fired perfectly the night before that crazy frost .. hard to wrap my head around that.

To quickly come back to Mr P's piece of education, i didn't want to talk about the starter that seems to be acording to Mr P, which makes a lot of sense. Could the frost have eventualy ended the life of my starter, that could explain why i'm loosing all batteries power when cranking even after running jumping cables for half hour ??

 

[ewo1]

How old are your batteries? Maybe they are at the end of their life???

 

[Mr P]

Slow cranking speed needs to be diagnosed before the no start. Healthy batteries, good connections, good (not corroded internally) cables, and a good starter are necessary. A jump start requires a healthy donor battery, large gauge jumper cables, good connections.

IF the batteries are healthy and there is a slow cranking speed, something will be getting hot, and quickly getting hot. A connection, a cable, or the starter. The hot part is likely "bad" (high resistance).

The no start: If a diesel is cranking at the correct speed but won't "fire" or "run", look at the tailpipe. If the injectors are squirting fuel there will be "raw" diesel smoke (grey to white in color) from the tailpipe. That means the fuel is not lighting due to improper glow plugs, poor compression, or poor quality fuel.

But, if there is NO fuel smoke, the injectors are NOT squirting fuel. On a 7.3/t444e there are several causes, I'd again suggest a computer scanner and Diesel Tech Ron vids regarding the scan data your engine displays.

 

[LilBusDude]

2020, they have taken some hits, cold, hard starts and what not's, could probably be at their end point espacially after such a cold night, they were actually a bit weak the morning before in a 30's type situation . Have to inspect starter and batteries when i get back to camp day after tomorrow. Seems like a very reasonable claim regarding main symptoms.

Thanks a lot

 

[LilBusDude]

Slow cranking speed needs to be diagnosed before the no start. Healthy batteries, good connections, good (not corroded internally) cables, and a good starter are necessary. A jump start requires a healthy donor battery, large gauge jumper cables, good connections.

IF the batteries are healthy and there is a slow cranking speed, something will be getting hot, and quickly getting hot. A connection, a cable, or the starter. The hot part is likely "bad" (high resistance).

The no start: If a diesel is cranking at the correct speed but won't "fire" or "run", look at the tailpipe. If the injectors are squirting fuel there will be "raw" diesel smoke (grey to white in color) from the tailpipe. That means the fuel is not lighting due to improper glow plugs, poor compression, or poor quality fuel.

But, if there is NO fuel smoke, the injectors are NOT squirting fuel. On a 7.3/t444e there are several causes, I'd again suggest a computer scanner and Diesel Tech Ron vids regarding the scan data your engine displays.

I definitely regard your entire answer, seems like not squirting fuel, there is absolutely not smoke coming out of the tailpipe. It's been alerting me already, just hard fact to interprete.

I only have an OBD2 basic scan tool, good to pull out codes, but nothing more.

I really like Ron and will dig into what i havn't all ready seen from him and see if i get any further education out of it. Probably will in any case, just hoping it helps to solve mine

Thank you both so much !

 

[Mr P]

I should clarify, the tailpipe should show some raw, vaporized fuel mist (from an engine that is getting fuel but is not "firing", "won't start"). It is not smoke, but could be mistaken for smoke.

 

[Jolly Roger bus 223]

newer batteries unless kept on a maintainer or driven everyday are not going to last past 4-5 years?
we used to get at least 8 years with a five year warranty battery but can now only get 3 year warranty batteries and hope for 5 in a perfect world.
they have to be used and or maintained.

 

[Mr P]

Battery age is irrelevant. They need to be checked whether they are 5 years or 5 minutes old.

 

[LilBusDude]

So, the batteries checked out very fine, doner batterie as well.

Put in a Denso starter to make sure it will crank fast enough.

Tried cranking, never cranked so fast, but still no beginning of a start, nothing else then cranking.

Going to loosen the rear passenger side fuel plug to see if i have fuel coming, because their is still zero smoke coming from the tailpipe, ZERO.

Can a fuel pump freeze to death without showing any DTC ??

 

[Mr P]

Cranking speed = good, fantastic first step!

Diagnosing no fuel vapor on cranking....check for fuel supply to the filter, check ECM data per vids I've recommended.