Steer wheels and drives wheels

[BlueBoy-SKO]

Looking to get some aluminum wheels for my 99 bluebird freightliner.
Besides them being polished on the outside or inside is there any difference?
From what I could find online I would say, no difference.
But one comment I saw someone bought a steer wheel and it wouldn’t fit on the rear. At least I think that’s what he was saying, wasn’t completely clear.

 

[BlueBoy-SKO]

By the way, why is there an SKO after my name?
I didn’t do it and I don’t know why it’s there.

 

[Stovebolt-SKO]

May we assume this is a full-sized bus on a commercial truck chassis? If you mean differences between aluminum wheels and your bus' OEM steel wheels? Yes. Nothing major, just critical. I assume that you will be taking your bus to an experience big truck/commercial vehicle tire shop for the change over. If so, they can help you out with what you'll need to make the switch to aluminum wheels.

In a nutshell, because the aluminum wheels are thicker material and more ductile, they will require (by DOT, too) different lug nuts. You *might* also require longer wheel studs, too. Maybe not -- again, your tire shop will guide you here. So do not be alarmed or think that its just a scam to charge you more -- new nuts and possibly new studs will be a requirement. There might be other issues I'm not aware of, but in the practical real world, the studs and lug nuts are all you really need to worry about and a good tire shop can deal with that for you. Its not terribly difficult or complicated, but not something you should do on your own if you aren't trained and experienced in this.

And just beware -- those shiny Alcoas will sure look pretty ... but they will take some continuous work to stay that way I've spent a lot of time cleaning, polishing and cleaning and polishing aluminum wheels on the various 18-wheelers I've driven. I'm keeping the steel (painted) wheels on my bus Class 7 and 8 vehicles produce a LOT of brake dust. Brake dust and aluminum wheels do not get along.

And if your bus is unmolested/unmodified, the wheels should fit front to back. Just remember "Steers" and "Drives" refer to the position of the tire on the vehicle and the tread design. Unless you will be traveling exclusively on nice asphalt or concrete highways, its generally inadviseable to put a steer tire in a drive position (traction issues). Likewise, unless you have a 4x4 or 6x6 (etc) vehicle, its a waste of money to put drivers on the front.

As to why your friend couldn't switch wheels front to back, there could be many reasons -- and none of them good in my mind. The lug pattern for all the class 7 and 8 vehicles I've ever driven (with Budd style wheels) is pretty much the same/standard pattern. Wheels should be able to switch to any position on your bus.

Again, this is for your info. Let a tire professional handle the switch to aluminum wheels for you.

Regards!
John

 

[BlueBoy-SKO]

You assume correct, full size on a truck chassis.

No I was wondering if the front wheels are the same as the rear. As far as casting and machining. Can you take one off the rear and put it on the front and vice versa? Of course they would need the correct tire.

I’m looking at some early Fraightliner wheels on eBay, they have them listed steer, drive inner and drive outer.

Actually I do mostly all the work on my vehicles. I’m a pretty skillful mechanical (machinist actually). I’ve worked on a lot of off-road heavy equipment.
There are a couple shops I do business with. One is a tire shop that does commercial and semi trucks and the other one does everything else mechanical. Actually they’re the ones doing the inspection on my bus.

I know aluminum wheels are thicker but I didn’t take that into consideration as far as the studs go and I didn’t realize I would need different Lugnuts.

It wasn’t a friend of mine, it was somebody in Internet land that had trouble getting the wheels to fit.

Maybe I’ll go back to my original idea and get all 6 to match. It’s a mixed match between 2 and 5 holes in the wheel.

 

[Stovebolt-SKO]

Im not sure if the number of hand holes in a wheel makes any difference. I've never known it to.

When they are referring to the wheels as being inner or outer drives, steers, etc .... are the coming with tires already mounted? Or it could mean that they were mounted in those positions previously and may be dirty/stained on the side that faces inward. On my work truck once, I was sortting through some used tires once while replacing a blown tire on a drive axle and didn't keep track of which tire had to go on which wheel and ended up with a previous inner wheel on an outside position .... that yucky aluminum wheel looked like I had a steel wheel on with aluminums. Check out the rear driver .... way to go, John!

Lastly .... when buying used wheels, aside from checking the size of the wheel and the bolt pattern, you'll also want to make sure you know whether its hub piloted or stud piloted. Some good info on that is here:

Hub and Stud Pilot Systems: Know the Facts

Learn the difference between the hub and stud pilot systems and the key facts to ensuring safe installation on commercial vehicles.

mccarthytire.com

Hope this helps!

 

[PorchDog]

One thing that does come into play (besides the stud length-- which is very important) is whether your wheels are stud piloted or hub piloted. If the lug nuts have a big flat washer made onto them-- you are hub piloted, but if they don't-- and are rounded off on one side-- then you are stud piloted. I am pretty sure they cannot be interchanged. Older stuff was stud piloted, newer stuff is hub piloted. I have two 1995 International Chassis Bluebirds, and one is hub piloted, and the other one is stud piloted.

Well, now I see someone has already pointed this out...

 

[BlueBoy-SKO]

Im not sure if the number of hand holes in a wheel makes any difference. I've never known it to.
Or it could mean that they were mounted in those positions previously and may be dirty/stained on the side that faces inward.

The only difference it makes to me is the way it looks. I just like the five holes better.
This one.

Older stuff was stud piloted, newer stuff is hub piloted.

The wheels I’m looking at, early and late, both look hub piloted. Which is what I need.
I’ll verify all the details if/before I buy them.


Getting aluminum wheels is 90% “I want” and 10% “I need”.
I SHOULD put that money towards things I need, like paint. Or new drive tires.
But I’m pretty sure after the bus is painted the wheels are going to be an issue.
And if I get the aluminum wheels now I can mount the new tires directly to them and keep the old tires on the steel wheels.
Sounds like a win-win!

 

[sportyrick]

Most people dont know that Alcoa makes 2 different kinds of finish, polished and Dura-Brite. Dura-Brites have a special coating that keeps them looking new for decades, never oxidizing and just needing nothing more than a good wipe down with a damp cloth. BUT you have to specify front or rear when purchasing because they don't coat both sides only one. The tire shop I ordered my Alcoa's from got in regular polished wheels which I refused to accept because the label was blue which depicts polished and I insisted that they get the real deal Dura-Brites with the black label stating such. I am sure you can check this out on the internet and these wheels do cost more but it's worth it. The picture of my bus here has 20 inch split rim stud centered Alcoa's on it from a long time ago which most people are surprised to realize Alcoa made, I had a set for years, look closely at the fronts and you can see the ring.

 

[ewo1]

I did change out my wheels to aluminum. Got them from a retired freightliner that was going to the scrap yard.
You WILL have to replace the studs as the steely wheel studs will be too short, especially in the rear. In the rear I kept the steel rim on the inside and put aluminum on the outside, Big trucks do the same!

You will want at least 6-8 threads on the lug nuts, exposed, after the lug nut is fully seated. This is for safety and also a DOT inspection item. Yes, I know you are required to do a DOT inspection but those rules when followed will only enhance your safety!

I first measured how much thread was exposed on the original steel wheel setup, removed the steel wheel and put the aluminum in, and then determined how much more thread I needed.
I went too long but, who cares.... got R done!

You can see pics of my wheel here on post # 106 of my build thread. ->> Bus # 9906

Once you get to this point you should entertain doing your brake work, if needed. replacing wheel seals would be a good thought. Also brakes...if there close to 50% I would just go ahead and replace them...but that's just me. It will save you time and effort later on down the road.

 

[ewo1]

deleted... I like the old forum better.... argh......

 

[BlueBoy-SKO]

In the rear I kept the steel rim on the inside and put aluminum on the outside, Big trucks do the same!

You can see pics of my wheel here on post # 106 of my build thread. ->> Bus # 9906

Once you get to this point you should entertain doing your brake work, if needed. replacing wheel seals would be a good thought.

I thought about leaving the steel wheels on the inside but figured if I’m going through all the trouble might as well go all aluminum. Semi’s have 4 on the inside versus 2 on a bus.

I like the pictures you posted. Looks like from the previous owners someone did some serious brake riding. If there’s that many heat cracks the drums were probably on the verge of glowing red.

All the brakes are actually pretty good. At least from what I can see through the inspection holes. If it gets through PA inspection (taking it in this Friday) I’ll look at the inner seals later on, there is some oil seeping through a couple bolts on the axel.

How thick are the aluminum wheels at the studs? From pictures I see on line it looks to be about 1/2”.

 

[sportyrick]

Might as well consider them an inch thick so you will need studs three or three and a half inches long and that's just exposed length after going through hub, I believe that is what I put in my rear hubs. I also am running steel on the inside but did longer studs in-case I wanted to go both aluminum. If you do use aluminum on both inside and outside you have to put a plastic sheet between them or they will weld themselves to each other.