Straight Bussin, no cap fr fr.

So I did finish screwing in the new ceiling. I did not use rivets. Screws were originally used with emergency hatch so I figured I'd just replace with similar screws. It did compress as in demacs case but mine was already dried and rain tested between first dynaflexing it and screwing. No leaks. Hasn't leaked since adding screws either. The weights were only because I didn't screw it in before drying. If it survived a rain uncompressed it's going to survive one compressed imo.
 

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Alright, I've gone far too long without posting on my own build thread and putting off the roof raise. I have some questions which I believe I know the answer to regarding the raise but there really isn't any great videos that show the front roof cap cutting and we definitely need more instructional videos showing how to cut and prep the front cap. I plan to YouTube document this roof raise process for y'all.

So my questions are on the cuts by the front cap over the door and driver seat. I'd ask that y'all could freeze the video, screenshot it and draw where you would suggest cutting. I believe I already know where to cut but if anyone has better insight than I suggest I'm all ears.

nikitis roof raise part one
 
I really should of done this a long time ago, but I didn't know if I was gonna take out all of the windows or only 4 of them. I'm still betting only 4 of them. I took the first window out and will cover it with a tarp for now. It won't go back in until the roof raise is done.

I have different windows than most. I don't know if this Thomas body was a beta build. More and more signs point to this. It was manufactured in 94 sold as 95 due to a cancellation of order so it got cancelled mid build and put to the side and finished later, but built in 94, and seems to be one of the early prototypes, and there are some differences in the body. Windows especially. I've only seen windows like this in one Vista. There's 5 screws holding it in. 2 on each side and 1 up top hidden under a seal. There's no hat channel caps on the sides that the rest of the 94-97 buses have. Another reason for this belief is my Engine does not have a serial stamped on the plate. Nor does International have one. It's blank on their records as well. Another reason I think this was a prototype bus for the 94-97 models. It's a first edition T444E judging by the HP rating at 165. A year later they were 175 or 190 out of factory. So I know it was an early T444E.

Anyway, got the window out.
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It is looking like I won't need to remove all of the Window guards on the outside, just the lower screws for the bumper bar, and the steel rivets on the bottom side of the bumper bar. (Screws on top, steel rivets on bottom).

I've never messed with riveting removal with steel rivets before and it was quite brutal with the air hammer. It did not want to come out without damaging the underlying metal which I do not want to do.
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Also that's not mostly rust, that's the brown under primer they used on the sheet metal. There is slight rust in the hole itself though. To be expected after 30 years.

But I'm not gonna use the air hammer on the rivet removal to protect the metal. I think I'm gonna just buy a spring punch, and then drill through them all. The metal will be far more protected and won't scuff like pic above. Not a fan of scuffing. While sure I could probably clean it up some once removed with sanding etc but it created quite a dent. I'll probably have to use bondo on that one to smooth it out and then sand it clean. I used the same bit everyone else uses, but it's not 100% flush with the sheet metal when used. I'm wondering if I grind away the bit to make it more flush and sharper if it would cut through then easier with less damage to the sheet?

I think I'm not going to go with steel rivets as originally planned. EWO1 talked me out of it. I do love the look of the steel rivets not having a hole in the middle, but I think I'll bondo the holes and do a quick sand on each one to look like the steel ones and then paint over it to keep the look. There's over 524 steel rivets I'd have to buck bar into place (I counted). So I'm going rivet gun.

With my roof raise cuts being under the windows. I only have to remove 4 windows. The one I did in the picture there, and the same on the other side, and the two rear windows so I can make my upwards cut along the sides. And if I end up doing the back through the door, I don't even have to remove the two rear windows, and save on like 60 rivet removals. Essentially keeping the rear cap in tact.

I will have to modify the rear door though which will be extra work. In the end it will be better though because the door will be longer, AND I can have more storage space under my bed, AND I can still exit through the back door from the bed. (It would be one **** of a fall, but I could escape in a fire situation. Before the way I was gonna do it would of had the door the same size, bed higher, and no ability to reach the door to open it, or fit through it.

More to come. I'm getting motivated now to do the roof raise.
 
Congrats on getting going! I had to swallow hard when I pulled out the windows and started doing things that would be hard to undo, but it is motivating!

I had the same experience with the air hammer - it takes the heads off but elongates and distorts the holes. I also went to drilling and punching, and it works better but slower. I also tried grinding the heads off and punching but was not successful - the body is too springy for the punch to really work well.

I think you made the right choice on riveting. Not only the pain of bucking and requiring 2 people, but also that solid rivets don't pull materials together like pop rivets do. It's really hard not to have spaces between layers with solid rivets.

Structural rivets don't leave holes - you may need a better rivet gun, but the mandrel is retained and the rivet is a lot stronger. With some thick primer you might be satisfied as is.

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Update:

Whelp folks. This is the Last time she's gonna look like this. She did well for 31 years, but it's time for a Make Over. Paint held up pretty well from Thomas considering. There's flakes here and there but the color is mostly there and not faded. If you look closely at the front license plate area how green it was there (Original color protected by a plate no longer there, she has really faded a lot)
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It's Roof Raise Time! Gonna start getting serious on it.

I took one window out already and it rained pretty hard yesterday and it was out in the open. Whoops. Thought I had more time....

I went out and bought 3x 11ftx19ft tarps and tying them down over the roof cause I don't got a warehouse or roof over her head to work on, so 3 tarps it is. I can unfold the tarps while working on her, I just need to cover over the windows. Not too worried about flash rust from humidity as it's so hot here it's all burning up.
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I wasn't planning on removing all of the Windows, only 4, but that plan has changed. And not entirely because of the roof raise, but because pretty much all of my windows Tabs are broken in two from age, and the only way to replace these tabs is to take the window out and unscrew the two side screws, one on each end. To get to the tabs on these, I have to unscrew the screw first, then the top part of the window frame comes up, then the springs/tabs fall out.
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Interestingly enough the screws used are "Star" studded screws! I had no idea those were used back then! They technically existed since the 1970's but never used on anything I saw from the 90's era. I didn't see star screws used until mid 2000's on things more commonly. Today they are quite common but completely not expected to be on this bus. I couldn't even find a star studded tool back in the 1990's (Pro-tip, a flat head just the right size can open these too)

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Anyway, expect more details pictures of my adventures soon. I may polyurethane the floors next to protect them during this roof raise process. (Protecting it better from Hot slag from welding, water, etc a little better in case water does leak through somehow with the tarp. But I will also be slowly grinding and drilling out the steel rivets under the windows to remove the top bumper bar where I plan to cut!
 

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I've never messed with riveting removal with steel rivets before and it was quite brutal with the air hammer. It did not want to come out without damaging the underlying metal which I do not want to do.





But I'm not gonna use the air hammer on the rivet removal to protect the metal. I think I'm gonna just buy a spring punch, and then drill through them all.

I forget which thread it was here but what was mentioned was to use a chisel with a bend vs a straight chisel, on the air gun that is.

when you use the straight one there is a tendency to dig into your metal while when using the curved chisel, once you get under it it sort of pull the rivet up and you get a nice clean removal. Remember to keep your air tools well lubed.
 
Yeah I used the one with the bend, it was still wanting to dig even when it was flat against it.
 
Started first coat of polyurethane on the floors to better protect them. Will check this morning to see if it's dried up full and if it needs another coat or not. The polyurethane I used seemed to be a bit thinner than I would have liked, but it rolled on well still.

Before:
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After:
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Anyway this isn't really required for anyone new to this. I'm only doing it because I already had a slight spill on one spot, and also grinding dust seems to discolor the wood. Adding a layer of protection while I weld hat channels in and such may help from slag burning holes into it. Should make it easier to sweep too in the meantime.

More updates coming.
 
You might consider putting a layer of RAM board over the floor while working (that’s the stuff contractors will use inside houses when doing renovations to protect the flooring)…used it on my build to protect the subfloor while building out the inside…
 
You might consider putting a layer of RAM board over the floor while working (that’s the stuff contractors will use inside houses when doing renovations to protect the flooring)…used it on my build to protect the subfloor while building out the inside…
Interesting. I've never heard of the stuff before. I may look into it still if this polyurethane doesn't hold out. I already laid out 2 coats onto it though. Finished second coat today. You can see the reflection on the OSB now :) Looks pretty!
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I also today finished my 3D printing design of new window latches with Thomas Logo's on them. I've always hated the fact that my Bus is a Thomas with no Thomas logo's anywhere. I didn't get an emblem, No logo on the top panel overhead that most have, no where. So adding the logo to all of my Window latches will spruce it up a tad. You can also see how in the picture in the post above this one, if you focus on the tops of the windows how they all droop. Cause the latches are broken. They will be fixed soon with my new 3D printed solution. If you are interested in the 3D Stencils they are on this page with more pictures of the adventure too: 3D Printed Window Latches
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Update with new video:

Window removal. How to remove Windows from 90-93 year model Thomas bodies. ( a 94-95 year bus may also have one of these bodies as is in my case. Carry over from Old Stock Inventory Thomas had to use up.)


Windows removed, See below. They were all mostly pretty easy, Just had a couple that didn't want to pop out even with the glue cut. I just slid a work knife down the sides only, didn't even bother with the top. They came out effortlessly. The Dicor sealant used on them was a white Dicor seal. Didn't use the black tar. Also the way the frame design is on these is great. It's nearly impossible for them to leak. The only real sealant they had was on the bottom corners where the bars were welded to the hat channel. There's an added back lip to prevent any water coming in through the leaky window to just roll on out. So when I put these back in, I only need to add some butyl tape in the bottom corners of the frame, and just do dicor sealant on the inside. The Frame does most of the work preventing leaks the way these year Thomas bodies were designed. Older is definitely better in this case.
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Also I have all 32 latches printed to replace the old broken latches in these windows. Since I ended up taking them out anyway which wasn't the original plan, to fix the latches. I'll just be replacing the latches with a MUCH sturdier, not so hollow latches. The Factory latches were just cheap. These will be solid replacements:
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Plus, just look at those logos, gonna be pretty sweet! These shouldn't break on me for the life of the bus, and will in fact outlast the bus. Reminder, if anyone needs a spare replacement, let me know I'll be happy to help.
 
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Update. Added a new video on my experience removing outside screws and older solid steel rivets. I found a new trick to better remove the steel rivets without damaging the surrounding metal.

Apologies for some background noise, the neighbors are all mowing their lawns at the same time, but the noise will subside in your heads after a short while if you focus on the content.

Enjoy! More to come.
 

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