T444E Cranks No Start, DTC Codes

[jtlynch74]

I know this is a common topic with t444e and 7.3s. I'm posting to try and get someone who is knowledgeable of these motors.

I pulled my codes they are
124 626 325 113 321

I know one is an icp sensor, 2 are related to coolant I believe and the other 2 are battery/voltage related which may be alternator.

I am mainly concerned with this crank no start situation. I noticed it when I put fresh fuel in it (don't know if it's related) but I swapped fuel filters and didn't get any change.

It will start on ether and stay running. I try to turn it on once a month but need to get this resolved sooner than later.

It will crank but will not fire if it has been sitting a while. Now if I get it fired up on ether it will be able to start back up for the rest of the day if I try. However if it sits for a day or so and I go back to fire it it will just crank and won't start. Almost acts as if it loses its fuel pressure but I don't think that is the problem.

Basically where should I start with these codes? I know the ICP can cause this. Also how do I clear the codes on the bus so I can start fresh? This was my first time reading codes since Ive owned it don't know how long they store.

Thank you for any help. I am trying to get more into these motors so I can save some money on repairs. I appreciate it.

 

[jtlynch74]

I have replaced all 3 dead batteries since ownership and have not had any coolant issues or temperature issues since ownership. Which is why resetting these codes may be helpful. I tried the accelerator 3 times while holding the button but did not work.

 

[ewo1]

start here...
Here is a no start - hard start diagnostics worksheet...from International.

The fact that she does run is a good sign!
Could be ICP pressure, air leak in the fuel line causing pressure to drop when turned off, glow plugs...
Your gonna need more info in order to determine a worthy direction for repairs.

Do you have access to Servicemaxx?

 

[jtlynch74]

Thank you for that chart that answered a lot of the diag. I don't have access to servicemaxx I'm trying to figure out the best way to hook up to the 9 pin plug and get engine communication.

 

[ewo1]

Thank you for that chart that answered a lot of the diag. I don't have access to servicemaxx I'm trying to figure out the best way to hook up to the 9 pin plug and get engine communication.

Not much to figure out. You NEED to have a Nexiq clone and it needs to live in the bus. think of it like having a spare tire. don't need it till you need it!

Servicemaxx is free so then you'll need an old laptop. These items are a must have if your gonna play with these busses.

94-97 T444E diagnostic Manual

 

[ewo1]

Here is an interesting read/thread. not the same as your issue but close enough to at least look at, read and understand.

T444e stalling / dash light

T444e + AT545. Two issues: I have an issue where engine will stall out, but start right back up. This is even after running for ~10-20 minutes. Earlier when I backed into my spot, the engine ran quite rough for a few seconds spewing black smoke. Smoke isn't always associated with the...

www.skoolie.net

The final issue on this one was a bare wire on the IPR pigtail but @Caddilackid also points to replacing the ICP due to the 124 DTC code, in this example.

This is why you need Servicemaxx, so that you can visually see the reading while you crank her up.

BTW, DTC 626 is loss of battery supply. Couple that with DTC113, low ECM voltage you either got a bad battery, bad grounds or a loose wire ??? It is really super important to make sure your battery is at full charge while diagnosing.
Jumper cables or hot box while testing, not good enough, battery must be in fully charged!!

 

[Omnibot2000]

Nexus Clone, Servicemax J1708 and Allison DOC

Good day, Will start this off I purchased a Nexus 1 clone from Amazon. I will only speak about the software I uploaded with how too. For reference I own a 2001 T444E with a 2000 series transmission. First, with some research I decided to purchase this(see link below). $300 Canadian, with...

www.skoolie.net

Please review and get a nexiq clone

 

[jtlynch74]

@ewo1 that is a helpful read he had a few of the same codes and that helps. I'll go with the ICP first. Batterys are fresh and I've kept them on a trickle charger constantly.

I can't get the nexiq quite yet, hopefully one day. Looks like I need the adapter cord from diag plug to a "nexiq" box then a cord from the box to a laptop.

Is there a way to reset the codes without the reader?

 

[ewo1]

@ewo1 that is a helpful read he had a few of the same codes and that helps. I'll go with the ICP first. Batterys are fresh and I've kept them on a trickle charger constantly.

I can't get the nexiq quite yet, hopefully one day. Looks like I need the adapter cord from diag plug to a "nexiq" box then a cord from the box to a laptop.

Is there a way to reset the codes without the reader?

If your batteries are fresh and maintained on a trickle charger then I would for sure be looking at your wiring situation. Bad grounds can and will cause the ECM to go nuts and you do have 2 battery codes on file.

To the best of my knowledge, you need some sort of code reader to reset/clear codes.
check FB Marketplace for a nexiq device, you might get lucky but please, don't become a parts changer in hopes of simply getting lucky. That could turn out to be expensive. I would also focus on fuel pressure, especially while cranking. Harbor Frieght to the rescue...for a fuel pressure guage.

you also need to know, in real time, what your HPOP/IPR pressure is while cranking, You shoot starting fluid and she starts right...??? that's not how it works. You need good oil pressure while cranking in order for the injectors to do their job but...electrical issue is still in play.

Another worthwhile read is this thread.

T444E diagnostic/repair tips

Post your T444E diagnostic and repair info in this topic so others might find it in their time of need. First, the T444E is called the 7.3L in Ford trucks, much of the info for one applies to the other. I highly recommend viewing applicable videos: Deboss Garage "everything wrong with the...

www.skoolie.net

I have found that the biggest hurdle to fixing these international engines is simply understanding what each sensor does and how they communicate in order to start your engine. simply swapping parts is not the way to do it.

T444e Fuel supply system- study this and look for leaks. One quick and dirty way, bottle of fuel, new hose and connect that to your fuel pump. If you existing line is catching air before it reaches the fuel pump, you will realize it if she starts right up but make sure your filters are full first!

 

[nikitis]

I'll remind and re-iterate on these threads. Start with the lowest number first and diagnose and work your way up to the higher number codes.

Most of the time the higher codes will go away once you fix the lower codes, and if you follow internationals diagnostics, their direction troubleshooting diagrams will tell you if it needs to move down to one of those lower codes.

items in the 100's are often multiple issues if you have more than one item in the 1xx's.

So in your example you have 113, and 124. Consider those two separate diagnostic paths to start and go down.

If you resolve 113 or 124, clear and check again and see if the others come back. You may find one or two of the others in the 2xx, 3xx, 6xx will have dissappeared unless it turns out that you had to go far enough down the path to where the root cause ended up being one of those 2xx, 3xx, 6xx issues, but more than not, you can resolve at the lower numbers first and eliminate the higher numbers first.

 

[jtlynch74]

So I'm working on the ICP code. I tried starting the bus with the ICP unplugged which should default the reading to one that it can start, however it did not start.

Also check my hpop for oil via the plug and it has oil.

I'm also trying to check my CPS however on the international dash the tach cycles fully when I turn the key on and when I turn it over so I don't know if the tach is moving with the cranks.


Going to look for someone with the hardware to read but I found some nexiq stuff on eBay for under 200

 

[BamaBus]

I am mainly concerned with this crank no start situation. I noticed it when I put fresh fuel in it (don't know if it's related) but I swapped fuel filters and didn't get any change.

It will start on ether and stay running. I try to turn it on once a month but need to get this resolved sooner than later.

It will crank but will not fire if it has been sitting a while. Now if I get it fired up on ether it will be able to start back up for the rest of the day if I try. However if it sits for a day or so and I go back to fire it it will just crank and won't start. Almost acts as if it loses its fuel pressure but I don't think that is the problem.

This is the same issue posted about back in September however, there was no mention of codes. The way I understand pulling codes is you get active and inactive codes when using the STI switch(EGES 125-1 Section 2.2 Page 14). So I believe the codes may all be inactive and not an issue here since codes were not cleared. This would be especially the case with 626 that should have occurred when the batteries were changed.

I highlighted what I believe is a fuel supply issue due to air intrusion, fuel line blockage etc. I don't feel that the engine would continue to run, then restart later the same day if there is an ecm/sensor issue. Unless, the engine will start from ether by-passing the ecm controls.

Check to see if you have fuel in the valley on top of the engine. Maybe fuel pump lines are bad.

 

[jtlynch74]

I agree with you on the codes. I am trying to reset them for that reason.

I also agree with you on a fuel issue. This origin of the problem is when I put my first tank of fuel in it since ownership. I noticed it the next time I went to start it this problem arose.

What issue could from new fuel maybe breaking spring seal somewhere?
I will look into pressure testing I do have a gauge. And will also look into fuel issue and your link.

Thankyou for your response it does make sense.

 

[jtlynch74]

Forgot I posted that thread bama bus. Thankyou but yes same issue still.

 

[Omnibot2000]

I developed a fuel knock on my bus.

I know the fuel knock was isolated on #1 cylinder.

First thing as per international is to make sure no air is entering the fuel system. I purchased a couple feet of clear fuel line and installed it on the suction side at the fuel filter housing. 10 mins later and I confirmed that I was drawing air into the system. Not enough to loose prime but enough that I see bubbles and I need to make the repairs first to continue my fuel knock repair(still doubt it's my issue though). Unfortunately winter took hold so I had to leave it for now.

My point is.....some clear fuel line can tell alot if your pulling air. You can eliminate the whole suction side of the fuel system very easily.

Do not use this clear fuel line on the pressure side of the fuel system.

 

[ewo1]

I developed a fuel knock on my bus.

I know the fuel knock was isolated on #1 cylinder.

First thing as per international is to make sure no air is entering the fuel system. I purchased a couple feet of clear fuel line and installed it on the suction side at the fuel filter housing. 10 mins later and I confirmed that I was drawing air into the system. Not enough to loose prime but enough that I see bubbles and I need to make the repairs first to continue my fuel knock repair(still doubt it's my issue though). Unfortunately winter took hold so I had to leave it for now.

My point is.....some clear fuel line can tell alot if your pulling air. You can eliminate the whole suction side of the fuel system very easily.

Do not use this clear fuel line on the pressure side of the fuel system.

I caught those air bubbles flying thru that tube. Nice work posting that!.
This is an issue that is all too easy to dismiss. Aerated fuel can cause starting/running issues for sure!

You might want to add/post that in Mr.P's thread...would be a good addition to the thread!

T444E diagnostic/repair tips

The nexiq should come with both 6 and 9 pin connectors. If your bus is the 6 pin there should be a female port under there somewhere. Most international dog noses they're under the dash to the right of the driver (kinda lined up with the center aisle). The flat noses are usually under the dash...

www.skoolie.net

 

[ewo1]

A question for 7.3/T444E guru's....

All my experience so far has been on the DT466e, none on a 7.3/T444e.

Being that these are both International HEUI's they share similar parallel technologies/protocols.

Where am I going with this...
I know that on a DT motor there is a common high pressure oil rail and there are o-rings required to keep the high pressure from leaking from the injectors.

Not allowing pressure to build up (leaking) during cranking would cause extended crank times and/or a no start.

Can someone chime in and explain how this is done/designed on a 7.3?

On a DT motor you have a common oil rail with "pucks" where the o-rings are installed.
Is it the same on a 7.3/t444e ?
I'm sure it has to be somewhat similar.... There must be some sort of pressure control!

I know that on a DT motor one can simply remove the valve cover, crank and you can do a visual for leaks that way or apply shop air to the high pressure connector on the block in order to check for leaks.

How do you do it on a 7.3/T444e and can you simply do a visual like you can on a DT motor by removing the valve cover.

Reason why I am thinking in this direction, I recently went thru this, long crank time.... and I wonder if the OP might be experiencing a similar issue....stepping away from codes here...
If it is starting and running with stimulants then we know sensors/ecm are at least operational.

If the engine is not seeing the 550-600 lbs of HPOP to the injectors while cranking then, no start!

This one good reason why Servicemaxx is a must have!

 

[jtlynch74]

If I recall when I changed my fuel filter it did not want to refill /prime itself back up. I had to fill it manually. And I did have it running at one point and it chugged out and died. I have cleaned the fuel pump in the valley before because it looked moist.

Looking into testing the fuel pressure but I'll have to start it on ether to get it idling and running.

Definitely need to get it scanned.

 

[BamaBus]

So you bought this 2003 bus last summer and put fuel in it just after purchase?

After you fueled it up you noticed this problem and then changed the filters?

The filter housing is not priming at key-on? (It shouldn't since the priming occurs while cranking)

You removed the top and no fuel flows into the housing after cranking?

Are you getting fuel at the pre-strainer attached to the fuel filter after cranking?
Fuel flows from the tank through this first before the primer pump. Then it goes back through the filter.

Remove fuel tank cap and crank to see if there is a blockage of the tank vent.

 

[Mr P]

A question for 7.3/T444E guru's....

All my experience so far has been on the DT466e, none on a 7.3/T444e.

Being that these are both International HEUI's they share similar parallel technologies/protocols.

Where am I going with this...
I know that on a DT motor there is a common high pressure oil rail and there are o-rings required to keep the high pressure from leaking from the injectors.

Not allowing pressure to build up (leaking) during cranking would cause extended crank times and/or a no start.

Can someone chime in and explain how this is done/designed on a 7.3?

On a DT motor you have a common oil rail with "pucks" where the o-rings are installed.
Is it the same on a 7.3/t444e ?
I'm sure it has to be somewhat similar.... There must be some sort of pressure control!

I know that on a DT motor one can simply remove the valve cover, crank and you can do a visual for leaks that way or apply shop air to the high pressure connector on the block in order to check for leaks.

How do you do it on a 7.3/T444e and can you simply do a visual like you can on a DT motor by removing the valve cover.

Reason why I am thinking in this direction, I recently went thru this, long crank time.... and I wonder if the OP might be experiencing a similar issue....stepping away from codes here...
If it is starting and running with stimulants then we know sensors/ecm are at least operational.

If the engine is not seeing the 550-600 lbs of HPOP to the injectors while cranking then, no start!

This one good reason why Servicemaxx is a must have!

I'm thinking that's covered in the t444e diagnostic repair tips thread.... "Diesel Tech Ron 7.3" on YouTube is your friend.