Thomas bus, safety lights + stop arm - program out or mimic with resistors?

[BusBiz]

Although I can clearly see and understand your points with the perceived simplicity of what your are explaining, on the flip side of those thoughts, when a function controlled by the BHM or BCM, you could be potentially dead in the water with regards to your bus rolling down the road because lack of replacing a simple relay, you now need to find a shop with the ability to conduct BCM/BCM repairs, spend a fortune on towing and given the fact that I have personally told by my local International dealer that they will not work on busses that are over ten years old, or skoolies... I myself would shy afar away from BHM or BCM's, far away.

Now you said programming is easier and less expensive than actually changing out components. this does have some, limited, truth.
I, like most folks here, am a DIY'er. I can't get access to the BHM server and I am not paying a grand or so for software.

Relays are only 10-20 bucks...fuses are cheaper.... So in my scenario...my bus is way cheaper to fix. Limited programming to the ECM and TCM and ...done!
I personally removed my stop arm, 8 way light, interlocks, no programming, no monies to pay someone for the work, no more future issues with these circuits!

Then when it comes to labor costs... there are thousands of tech who can do wiring "competently" and what a couple of hundred "Daimler Trained" BHM techs???

And removing hardware interlocks will only cause a limited response with regards to starting, braking or gear selection. all well known and easily workable issues.

If your BHM hiccups then multiple circuits could be affected all with no roadside repair availability unless you have the expensive software and serer database access and even then, you got to know how to program the unit. How are you gonna fix lighting issues on the road if your BHM hiccups and the nearest dealer is 200 miles away? With a Napa 2 miles away and I buy a relay or a fuse, heck even at Walmart I can get basic parts too!

DEFUNCT...a word that can be viewed in a negative way.... Having a legacy (older) system might be viewed as "defunct". I don't see it that way.
My electrical system is older yes but hardly "defunct". It operates flawlessly and with very limited electronic controls.
This learning lesson I just went thru has me convinced that living life on simpler terms, is wonderful!
This defunct system will continue to work for the next 100 years!

Both systems though will always be subject to poor connection and lack of maintenance issues..... bad power, bad grounds....

Defunct means that in 50 years, my system will still keep on ticking like a TIMEX watch. Those BHM and BCM will evolve into something more proprietary and DIY'er like us will be totally locked out and under full control of the Electronic wardens who will want nothing more than to remotely access your crap and control your life even more....


Your explanation about 5-6 speed Allison is correct but... there are caveats to be aware of.
There is a concern for driveline specs and limitations on front engine busses AND depending on your rear gearing, that 6th gear just might be useless!

There on rule that I learned as a young boy and it still holds true today... OLD SKOOL RULES!

There have been hundreds if not thousands of electronically programmable products that we have all seen come and go and disappear for ever....The one system that will outlive us all, points and condensors...!!!

I'm not saying luxury and "ease of usage" is not "nice" or "comfortable", I am just saying "I like it simple"!
I like nice things but, I like it more when is simpler.

"cut n Paste" works fine for many folks but, I personally like to help write the storyline versus living a one size fits all!

You can increase the horsepower on a 2014 Thomas Freightliner C2 with a 6.7L Cummins engine via a dealer-authorized re-rate, which will increase output by 50–100+ HP depending on the specific engine configuration (CPL). This is done by updating the ECM calibration, typically handled through authorized software like Cummins Insite..

 

[ewo1]

Here's something that might interest you,
You can pull the Body Control Module (BCM) or other electronic modules from a 2014 Thomas Freightliner C2 Saf-T-Liner and send them in for repair and programming
. Several third-party, IPC-certified technicians offer "repair and return" services, which allow the module to be "plug-n-play" upon reinstallation without requiring additional dealer programming.
Key Considerations for 2014 Thomas C2 Modules:

• CPC4 Module Repair: The Common Powertrain Controller (CPC4) for 2013-2019 Thomas Saf-T-Liner C2 buses can be sent for rebuild. Reputable services will ensure the VIN, odometer mileage, and vehicle settings are retained.
• BCM and Electrical Issues: The BCM in these buses manages lighting, windows, and wipers; failures often manifest as erratic electrical behavior or "no communication" codes (e.g., U0140).
• Plug-n-Play Service: Choosing a repair service that promises "plug-n-play" means you won't need to visit a dealership for final configuration, as they pre-program the module with your VIN.
• Alternative Causes: Before sending modules away, check for common, non-module issues such as water intrusion, corrosion in the connectors, or issues in the Power Distribution Modules (PDMs) / fuse boxes, particularly under the driver's feet.

Recommendations:
Ensure the repair service supports the Freightliner C2/Thomas Bus chassis with diagnostic software like Allison DOC or similar. When sending in parts, ensure they are securely packaged with sufficient padding to avoid damage during shipping.
So in the event of something happening to one of those modules you could pull and overnight them. The way I've learned to see it is, it's all mechanical work just with different tools and yes not having the correct tools will always be a hindrance..

ALL OF THE ABOVE, NOTHING NEW, YOU CAN DO THAT WITH ANY TRUCK/BUS!

difference is, on "defunct" models no BCM to worry about or repair! NO CPC4, only the ECM and TCM.

Allsion doc is for Allison Transmissions, it makes NO DIFFERENCE who the platform manufacturer is.

PLUG n PRAY, no worries here because "Homie" don't play that.

Everything you stated holds truth but, I have anti brakes, cruise control and with respect to anti collision or active braking....simply pay attention to your driving and remember your driving a bus and not a Ferrari race car. Each should be operated with respect and safety.

Fuel mileage, your NOT gonna see 15-20 MPG, no matter what you do. heavy foot, heavy fuel usage.

Most diesels can be re-rated via ECM software, so long as the hardware can support it and running your engine at 75-80% max for sustained periods only serves to wear it down faster. I'm not saying your wrong, I just live in another world I guess.

Get the CC to work yet?

 

[desrtdog]

You can increase the horsepower on a 2014 Thomas Freightliner C2 with a 6.7L Cummins engine via a dealer-authorized re-rate, which will increase output by 50–100+ HP depending on the specific engine configuration (CPL). This is done by updating the ECM calibration, typically handled through authorized software like Cummins Insite..

A Hp increase requires that you load a different ECM code (program) and with that you also get a different torque, which for the 2500PTS may exceed its rating….how do I know this?…because I spoke to both Cummins and Allison tech support…

 

[PorchDog]

Well, you have two camps-- the believers and the non- believers... I'm nearly 68-- and I am in the non-believer camp.

I work at a car dealership with access to all the tools and programming to fix late model stuff. What I have seen in the last 10 to 15 years is very rapid obsolescence, perfectly good mechanically wise vehicles almost totaled because a module has failed that is no longer available-- or very expensive -- and this is OBD2 stuff with 'right to repair"...these commercial vehicles do not have that. One shot modules that once programmed can never be programmed again. Yes-- anything can be hacked or cracked-- IF there is enough interest or money to do so. All this programmability comes at a tremendous cost in complexity-- and at the end of the day the manufacturers are putting a noose around your neck that they can tighten as they see fit.

For example-- the chassis air-conditioning on my 30 year old 1996 bus is controlled by switches and relays. No PC boards, no microprocessors, just simple stuff. With a multimeter, patience, and perseverance-- I might be able to repair whatever went wrong-- throw a computer into the mix--- I would be totally out of luck.

I am in the luddite camp...

Bah-humbug... grunt, grunt....

 

[ewo1]

Well, you have two camps-- the believers and the non- believers... I'm nearly 68-- and I am in the non-believer camp.

I work at a car dealership with access to all the tools and programming to fix late model stuff. What I have seen in the last 10 to 15 years is very rapid obsolescence, perfectly good mechanically wise vehicles almost totaled because a module has failed that is no longer available-- or very expensive -- and this is OBD2 stuff with 'right to repair"...these commercial vehicles do not have that. One shot modules that once programmed can never be programmed again. Yes-- anything can be hacked or cracked-- IF there is enough interest or money to do so. All this programmability comes at a tremendous cost in complexity-- and at the end of the day the manufacturers are putting a noose around your neck that they can tighten as they see fit.

For example-- the chassis air-conditioning on my 30 year old 1996 bus is controlled by switches and relays. No PC boards, no microprocessors, just simple stuff. With a multimeter, patience, and perseverance-- I might be able to repair whatever went wrong-- throw a computer into the mix--- I would be totally out of luck.

I am in the luddite camp...

Bah-humbug... grunt, grunt....

cars and obsolescence. don't get me started....

I am not far behind you, turning 65 this year...
In 2006 I bought my wife a brand new Jaguar XJ8L, air ride suspension. Back then it was a $70 grand car....
today she sits in my shop, perfect condition with only 50k miles.
20 year old car with 50k miles!

The problem...4 wheel air ride suspension.
Works great when it worked but now...4 Jaguar dealers have politely refused to work on it as the air ride computer and parts are no longer available thru Jaguar. They can special order from overseas but I get the special order, shoot myself in the head pricing with no guarantees!

The second problem is the software. the 4 dealers I contacted no longer have it and, there tech aren't trained on that air ride system anymore.

I got the the software, ordered from the UK, hacked version. Has to be run on a virtual machine. I am still trying to figure it out.

No mom and pop shops will touch it because their Snapon software does not communicate properly, for trouble shooting purposes... the two shops in Miami that tried, failed. One of them burnt up the compressor.
I got a new (used from a wreck) suspension module and true to my life's learning curves...I'm going DIY on this. Car is too nice to put in a spring suspension!

It important to note that that particular air ride system had a short US life of only 5 years.

yeah, I can second that... Bah-humbug... grunt, grunt....

But me being me, I'm gonna fix the fokin thing!

 

[PorchDog]

We had traded for a Lincoln Town car or something-- in the same year range as your Jaguar--probably when Ford owned Jaguar-- so I suspect it had the same system, my brother and I were coming back from the auto auction in said car, and about 50 miles into the trip-- I told my brother we were "listing to port"-- stopped-- got out and one side was jacked way up... most folks converted to springs or something. I am very sorry for this thread hi-jack-- but this stuff bugs me to death... junk...

And folks might comment that I just don't like electronics-- but I have a background in electronics including microprocessor based stuff-- so It's not that I don't have some understanding-- it's just that I don't like how it has been forced on us -- in recent history most of these automotive modules are bought very cheaply from China-- marked way up-- and then we get crucified when you need a replacement. John Deere will charge you $1600 to make a service call to program a module or part you installed yourself. They've got you---

Martha!!--Where's my blood pressure medicine--

 

[ewo1]

We had traded for a Lincoln Town car or something-- in the same year range as your Jaguar--probably when Ford owned Jaguar-- so I suspect it had the same system, my brother and I were coming back from the auto auction in said car, and about 50 miles into the trip-- I told my brother we were "listing to port"-- stopped-- got out and one side was jacked way up... most folks converted to springs or something. I am very sorry for this thread hi-jack-- but this stuff bugs me to death... junk...

And folks might comment that I just don't like electronics-- but I have a background in electronics including microprocessor based stuff-- so It's not that I don't have some understanding-- it's just that I don't like how it has been forced on us -- in recent history most of these automotive modules are bought very cheaply from China-- marked way up-- and then we get crucified when you need a replacement. John Deere will charge you $1600 to make a service call to program a module or part you installed yourself. They've got you---

Martha!!--Where's my blood pressure medicine--

John Deere...Oh boy..Talk about markup...
I have an Atlas Copco 375 cfm compressor with a John Deere diesel motor. Turbo seized up. John Deere wanted $1,200 bucks for a replacement turbo. Got it on Ebay for $400. Air compressor no longer rolling coal!

I'm ok with some limited technology. I grew up with black n white TV, the came "Pong" and Beepers....but todays stuff, it's like people are striving to become lazy and look good doing it and willing to pay thru the nose for it too!

Electronics training....me too.
I have an AS in Electronics Engineering and spent many years fixing consumer and industrial equipment. Component level troubleshooting sure is fun, but today, plug n pray!

Hey @BusBiz...any progress on your CC issue?
I'd really like to know!

 

[nikitis]

An option you may have is you could disconnect the wiring from the lights directly, buy an oldschool WigWag yellow device, install it and wire it to your lights with a trigger you add for $4. Simply bypass all that jazz and build your own. The diagrams are out there for the older buses, you could easily wire your own into your bus to control the stop arm and flashing lights.

I've done this myself as my bus didn't have the full system installed in it as it was an oddball and removed from the factory lane mid build, and it was never completed so I completed it myself. It simply takes 12v from the buses circuit board, to the yellow device, and then run wiring to each light directly, with the momentary switch also attached to it. You'll need to wire it up yourself but just bypass all of the BCM/BHM whatever crap that won't let you control it.

There's even an alternative flasher you can buy to achieve it:

https://www.amazon.com/Wig-Headlight-Grille-Light-Flasher/dp/B00HQL8ADA?tag=ustxtaddt-20

But I think the official one was called a "Weldon 7000 Flasher"

419872001 Weldon 7000 Electronic Eight Lamp School Bus Flasher - USED - OEM | eBay

Up for sale is a Weldon Technologies - Flasher Weldon 7000. Part # 3303 / 5200-4000. This item is in used condition, but was tested. work for your specific application.

www.ebay.com

Basically you wire in the lights into that yellow thing, and give it 12v power, and add a switch and you control your flasher lights. That's all there is to it on the old buses, time to convert yours into DIY.

If you build it, it will come.

 

[Mercuric Mind]

This kind of thread is what makes this site great! Lots of good info and some friendly banter

 

[ewo1]

What would put the icing on the cake would be if the OP fills us in on the final results.
I find it really satisfying when that happens, it gives future readers in a jam a fighting chance!

 

[BusBiz]

An option you may have is you could disconnect the wiring from the lights directly, buy an oldschool WigWag yellow device, install it and wire it to your lights with a trigger you add for $4. Simply bypass all that jazz and build your own. The diagrams are out there for the older buses, you could easily wire your own into your bus to control the stop arm and flashing lights.

I've done this myself as my bus didn't have the full system installed in it as it was an oddball and removed from the factory lane mid build, and it was never completed so I completed it myself. It simply takes 12v from the buses circuit board, to the yellow device, and then run wiring to each light directly, with the momentary switch also attached to it. You'll need to wire it up yourself but just bypass all of the BCM/BHM whatever crap that won't let you control it.

There's even an alternative flasher you can buy to achieve it:

https://www.amazon.com/Wig-Headlight-Grille-Light-Flasher/dp/B00HQL8ADA?tag=ustxtaddt-20

But I think the official one was called a "Weldon 7000 Flasher"

419872001 Weldon 7000 Electronic Eight Lamp School Bus Flasher - USED - OEM | eBay

Up for sale is a Weldon Technologies - Flasher Weldon 7000. Part # 3303 / 5200-4000. This item is in used condition, but was tested. work for your specific application.

www.ebay.com

Basically you wire in the lights into that yellow thing, and give it 12v power, and add a switch and you control your flasher lights. That's all there is to it on the old buses, time to convert yours into DIY.

If you build it, it will come.

I'm not trying to fix it or rebuild it I'm trying to eliminate it and all problems that go with it concerning the cruise control etc..