Upgraded lift pump

[RallyBus]

I have a 2000 Blue Bird with the 5.9 24v and my lift pump is on the way out. Does anyone know of or purchased a better than stock lift pump for their bus?

I've contacted FASS directly and they don't have anything based on my ESN or even a recommendation.

Even with only 64k on it, it has a remanufactures VP pump on it, so I'm assuming it's gone out before and trashed it. I obviously don't want to do that again.

Thanks
Richard

 

[Booyah45828]

You'll have to do something similar to stock, other wise the check engine light will come on. I believe the ecm monitors pump amperage and will throw a code if it's out of spec.

Various manufacturers have an updated version. The original pump was a vane pump that wasn't really designed to pull fuel long distances like they had it installed. The update is an inline pump that is a bolt in place option.

Look up delphi # hfp953 for the updated version. Carter and airtex also make a version of this as well.

As far as fass or other aftermarket companies go, I've never used them in commercial service, so I can't tell you how well they'd work.

Be sure to replace the fuel filter and water seperator when replacing the fuel pump

The original vane style pump is still available. If you're feeling ambitious, I know guys that have made a harness extension and relocated that pump back near the water seperator with good results.

 

[RallyBus]

Yes I had an intermittent ses and just found out this weekend it is from low fuel pressure. The filters have been changed in the last 1000 miles.

I will look into those other pumps. I have no problem relocating it if it helps but they fail in the pick ups with a much shorter pull too. So not sure that'll be worth it.

 

[Bon Voyage]

This is a long thread but it might have some useful information for you. There are some fass pump models listed in here that would probably work for you.

http://www.irv2.com/forums/showthread.php?t=289659

 

[Booyah45828]

As a follow up here.

I was pm'd about the airtex pump upgrade, but I never did a back to back test or comparison of the carter vs airtex until this past saturday.

For the record, most carter pumps would struggle to get 10 or so psi at idle. I had a dodge truck come in this past week that would prime up to 7, and then once the truck was started, it fell to 1 psi at idle. Typically, we see these lift pumps outright fail and pump nothing. So as a test, I installed a new fuel filter and nothing changed. I then removed and replaced the carter pump with the airtex unit, and had an instant 14 psi at idle. I can say with almost 100% certainty, no carter pump has ever achieved that. So the airtex pump is definitely an upgrade over stock.

and as an FYI, I've yet to replace any of the airtex units either. so longevity seems to be there too.

 

[hoge0023]

I have a 2002 Bluebird with the 24v Cummings. The FASS DRP02 pump is a direct bolt on if you have the lift pump on the side of the block (not in the tank). I did this replacement and it works fine for me. It's an upgrade to 90 GPM. Word to the wise, if the lift pump is ON the way out, do your checks on the VP44. The circuit board could already be fried.

 

[fo4imtippin]

You'll have to do something similar to stock, other wise the check engine light will come on. I believe the ecm monitors pump amperage and will throw a code if it's out of spec.

Various manufacturers have an updated version. The original pump was a vane pump that wasn't really designed to pull fuel long distances like they had it installed. The update is an inline pump that is a bolt in place option.

Look up delphi # hfp953 for the updated version. Carter and airtex also make a version of this as well.

As far as fass or other aftermarket companies go, I've never used them in commercial service, so I can't tell you how well they'd work.

Be sure to replace the fuel filter and water seperator when replacing the fuel pump

The original vane style pump is still available. If you're feeling ambitious, I know guys that have made a harness extension and relocated that pump back near the water seperator with good results.

This is a long thread but it might have some useful information for you. There are some fass pump models listed in here that would probably work for you.

http://www.irv2.com/forums/showthread.php?t=289659

Just read this whole thread and im while its mostly about the CAPS ISC, im mixed on one piece of the install of the FASS Titanium.



The FASS wiring harness that came for the VP44 based dodge has me hook the relay to "key-on" to always run the FASS when the key is on.


The Airdog version comes with a deutsch connector to trigger the relay from the original output of the carter pump.


The iRV people with the ISC/CAPS are hooking up an empty relay to the factory lift pump wires to prevent a code in the ECM. They claim that their factory lift pump only runs for 30 seconds to help prime the pump, then shuts off and lets the CAPS pump gear pull the fuel from the tank... They are fueling it with 15psi all the time to ensure it isnt starved.


With my factory carter pump, bumping the key does run it for only 30 seconds, but i assume it stays running when the engine is actually turned over. I did buy a deutsch connecter and plan to trigger my relay off the factory lift pump. I also just added a fuel pressure gauge to monitor if the FASS is turning on and off while driving. I would keep it simple, but i read something somewhere (cant remember where) that the VP44 sometimes needs pressure relief just after startup or idle or something and not to always push 15psi at it.


Anyone have any logic on the ECM they would like to share? If not, ill report my findings..

 

[PorchDog]

I have a FASS installed on a 1999 pickup, and the pump runs all the time.

The truck only has 84000 miles-- I bought it from the original owner-- and the VP44 had already been replaced. The original injector pumps used solder with no lead, but I think the remanufactured pumps were repaired with leaded solder-- so a replacement injector pump is probably significantly better than the original pump.

Even with this issue-- I like this and the P 7100 bosch system because if you have an injector that dribbles, or has an off spray pattern-- you probably will not hole a piston. On a common rail-- if you have an injector issue-- with constant fuel pressure always present at the rail-- you can fry a piston...

We replaced a long block in a common rail Dodge many years ago-- for a holed number one piston-- maybe a hole in the block-- about $10,000 and it ran about 10,000 miles and holed another piston. In our ignorance, we did not replace or get the injectors tested.

 

[Booyah45828]

What "logic" are you looking for? I reread what I typed, and I'm still in agreement with it. ISC operates differently then the ISB, so take all that stuff with a grain of salt. Or at least know that what you're reading might not apply to you.

ISB constantly runs the pump. Leaving the pump connector disconnected will throw a light and code on a bus.

I've never heard of anything regarding pressure relief. There's a relief valve on the side of the pump if you do overpressurize it. Throw fuel at it, can't do enough as far as I'm concerned. Keeps the injection pump cool and hurts nothing. Just be sure that you have a gauge or light or something for when it's not working.

 

[fo4imtippin]

I have a FASS installed on a 1999 pickup, and the pump runs all the time.

The truck only has 84000 miles-- I bought it from the original owner-- and the VP44 had already been replaced. The original injector pumps used solder with no lead, but I think the remanufactured pumps were repaired with leaded solder-- so a replacement injector pump is probably significantly better than the original pump.

Even with this issue-- I like this and the P 7100 bosch system because if you have an injector that dribbles, or has an off spray pattern-- you probably will not hole a piston. On a common rail-- if you have an injector issue-- with constant fuel pressure always present at the rail-- you can fry a piston...

We replaced a long block in a common rail Dodge many years ago-- for a holed number one piston-- maybe a hole in the block-- about $10,000 and it ran about 10,000 miles and holed another piston. In our ignorance, we did not replace or get the injectors tested.

I can't tell 100% but I think the vp44 has been replaced recently before I bought the bus. It has a new ECU, tappet cover, lift pump, and an added fuel pressure sensor (service bulletin work). So far, VP44 looks to be in good shape and I hope to keep it that way.

 

[fo4imtippin]

What "logic" are you looking for? I reread what I typed, and I'm still in agreement with it. ISC operates differently then the ISB, so take all that stuff with a grain of salt. Or at least know that what you're reading might not apply to you.

ISB constantly runs the pump. Leaving the pump connector disconnected will throw a light and code on a bus.

I've never heard of anything regarding pressure relief. There's a relief valve on the side of the pump if you do overpressurize it. Throw fuel at it, can't do enough as far as I'm concerned. Keeps the injection pump cool and hurts nothing. Just be sure that you have a gauge or light or something for when it's not working.

Just that the lift pump runs when the engine runs. Got it all hooked up now to trigger the relay off the factory lift pump connector. I think this will be better for me because if I don't actually start the engine, the fass will shut off after 30 seconds.