Using a school bus as a classroom - is a bus a "structure"?

[funniguy84]

Hello all! Super new to the forums so thank you for the welcome. My wife and I are looking to use a school bus on an empty lot to start a nature school for about 15 children. We have ponies, goats, bunnies, and other animals and are looking to engage young children with a nature based cirriculum.

I am getting feedback from the fire marshall that he considers a school bus a "structure", and therefore I need to implement all sorts of road improvements, water tank requirements, and other IFC requirements.

Has anyone ever run into this? I can't seem to find good information online about the nature of a bus as a "structure" versus it not being considered one. I live in Texas if that helps

 

[nikitis]

I would say a Bus is not a structure, unless it is permanently grounded. I.E. wheels removed and set on blocks.

The reason I say this legally is due to how many people get around city permits who want a structure on their land but cannot get a permit for one, so they use a Bus since it's on wheels and can be removed. It's not legally a permanent structure.

It is a vehicle legally not a structure.

 

[DeMac]

Agricultural Vehicle (Pole Barn on Wheels)

Hello all! Super new to the forums so thank you for the welcome. My wife and I are looking to use a school bus on an empty lot to start a nature school for about 15 children. We have ponies, goats, bunnies, and other animals and are looking to engage young children with a nature based cirriculum.

I am getting feedback from the fire marshall that he considers a school bus a "structure", and therefore I need to implement all sorts of road improvements, water tank requirements, and other IFC requirements.

Has anyone ever run into this? I can't seem to find good information online about the nature of a bus as a "structure" versus it not being considered one. I live in Texas if that helps

----------------
Run into this? Sort of.

You wrote, "ponies, goats, bunnies...'
Is the bus on A-1 zoned land?

Maybe the offial was thinking of RV or recreational vehicles, possibly residential codes.

If you are an active farm, or can become one, try registering the bus as an ag vehicle, instead. The state will give you a permit that the county can't revoke, refute or dispute.

Anything you can build into a pole barn, ought to be fine in a mobile pole barn (bus). Most ag buildings are mobile, usually on skids. Chicken tractors, horse shelters, swine shacks, gothams (goat homes).... heck, even the electric fencing is mobile. I have a small trailer dedicated to fence repair. (Ya dig?)

Be sure to ask the inspector what, if any, permits are required for mobile, unattached, ag 'structures'. (Likely none)

Do NOT say children or school. Instead say, farmer & her immediate family, ag supplies & equiptment, animals & feed....


To register agricultural vehicles in Texas, you can apply for farm license plates and submit the application to your local county tax assessor-collector's office. You may also need to provide proof of eligibility, such as a permit card from the Texas Comptroller's office.

Eligibility:
Farm vehicles can be used for transporting livestock, poultry, dairy, timber, farm products, and laborers
Farm vehicles can also be used for transporting the owner's family for necessities like school, church, or medical treatment
Farm vehicles cannot be used for gainful employment other than farming or ranching

Required documents:
Form VTR-52-A, Application for Farm License Plates
Proof of eligibility, such as a permit card from the Texas Comptroller's office
Proof of current liability insurance for farm trucks or farm truck tractors
Copy of the title application receipt (VTR-500 RTS) if you recently submitted an application for title
Copy of the lease agreement if the vehicle is leased

Fees:
The plate fee for Go Texan license plates is $30 per year
Personalized license plates cost an additional $40 per year
Seasonal agricultural registration fees are based on the number of months being applied for

 

[Cheezewhiz]

Has wheels and drives? Sounds like a vehicle, not a structure, and therefore not his jurisdiction. I don't think he needs to know what the bus for, either.

Guy sounds like a prick and like he's trying to shut you down. Is he new? My experience is new fire marshals really feel the need to swing their dick around for some reason-the old ones have seen enough **** that their priority is actually safety and if they see you're also safety oriented, you're fine.

Headbutt your local overbearing authority figure

 

[cadillackid]

I think calling it a structure esp in relation to school came about from the trailers that got broguth into may schools as "temporary" classrooms.. in the 80s our school had them.. they were still on wheels just parked on the edges of the parking lot.. the word always was that the county inspectors didnt like them as they couldnt regulate them for code like they could buildings... so the county ended up passing an ordinance that said if you are using it like a permanent structure then it has to at least meet the requirements of a mobile home on a lot... and if its a commercial space it had to meet commercial space requirements for "semi-permanent" buildings.. so they could enforce occupancy requirements, emergency exit requirements, fresh air, etc.. about the only thing that it didnt have to have was fire sprinklers... this all happened after i graduated.. but the ramifications rang far as it applied to construction trailers, trailers brought in for things like christmas tree lots , etc... RVs werent included unless they were the only structure on the property then it was considered the semi-permanent home..



I suspect calling it a school makes it a commercial space and takes on the whole commercial space requirement..



just like me in ohio with my busses.. I dont need to have yearly inspections or a CDL to own / drive them in ohio as they are 100% private.. but if a charity event said "looking for a shuttle"... and I responded. even for zero pay non volunteer id be considered commercial.. but i can call up 15 friends and say "lets go for pizza in the bus" and its not commercial...



its about how you use the bus more than the fact that it is a bus..

 

[Stovebolt-SKO]

If you are bringing in people, especially children, to your farm who aren't family, it could open you up to possible liability issues. I had a choose and cut christmas tree farm for 20 years (AgraTainment). Not completely unlike what you are talking about.


I may be a lone voice here, but when it comes to groups of children, safety should be your first concern. Check with as many agencies as you need to -- probably start with your county extension agent.


But DON'T attempt to "game the system." At best, you're only hurting your own integrity. At worst, you could get someone hurt or killed.


Figure out what the *right* way is and do it that way.

 

[DeMac]

Inherent Risk Laws & Liabilities

If your intention is farm education, agricultural activities, and animal husbandry, stay on this path.

Texas agricultural inherent risk law is a statute that limits the liability of farm animal owners and professionals for injuries caused by inherent risks. The law is found in Chapter 87 of the Texas Civil Practice and Remedies Code.

What does the law cover?
The law protects farm animal owners and professionals from liability for injuries or deaths to participants in farm animal activities.

This includes injuries or deaths that occur during livestock shows.
The law applies to all farm animals, including equine, bovine, sheep, goats, pigs, poultry, and honeybees.

What are inherent risks?
Inherent risks are dangers that are unavoidable or naturally occurring when working with farm animals.
These risks include animal behavior, unpredictable reactions, environmental factors, and collisions.

What are the requirements of the law?
Farm animal owners and professionals must post warning signs in visible locations.
The warning signs must include the language that the owner or professional is not liable for injuries resulting from inherent risks.
The warning signs must be included in all written contracts with participants.

Also, imho, you ought to obtain adequate insurance and form an llc, if you haven't already.

 

[cadillackid]

If your intention is farm education, agricultural activities, and animal husbandry, stay on this path.

Texas agricultural inherent risk law is a statute that limits the liability of farm animal owners and professionals for injuries caused by inherent risks. The law is found in Chapter 87 of the Texas Civil Practice and Remedies Code.

What does the law cover?
The law protects farm animal owners and professionals from liability for injuries or deaths to participants in farm animal activities.

This includes injuries or deaths that occur during livestock shows.
The law applies to all farm animals, including equine, bovine, sheep, goats, pigs, poultry, and honeybees.

What are inherent risks?
Inherent risks are dangers that are unavoidable or naturally occurring when working with farm animals.
These risks include animal behavior, unpredictable reactions, environmental factors, and collisions.

What are the requirements of the law?
Farm animal owners and professionals must post warning signs in visible locations.
The warning signs must include the language that the owner or professional is not liable for injuries resulting from inherent risks.
The warning signs must be included in all written contracts with participants.

Also, imho, you ought to obtain adequate insurance and form an llc, if you haven't already.

wow good stuff!! finally someone who acknowledges that certain activities can be inherently unpredictable and possibly dangerous!!