VT-365 / IC-bus

[cadillackid]

I ran across what seems like a really nice IC BE(short bus) series (2008?) that has a VT-365 in it..

I dont see that engine brought up here in the forums very much...

is it any good?

in general are IC-BUS good?

-Christopher

 

[EastCoastCB]

Its the 6.0

They've been nothing but problems.

 

[cadillackid]

was its predecessor the T444E any better?
-Christopher

 

[Booyah45828]

Yes, it was. Different injectors and a different pump. Not dead reliable but way better then what the 6.0 and 6.4 uses. I've read that the vt365 didn't have the problems the powerstroke did, and I've read the reasons that others have surmised as to why. But I haven't worked on many so I have no experience to comment with.

 

[Bon Voyage]

The VT365 aren't as problematic as the 6.0 Powerstroke because much of the Powerstroke's problems came from the emissions equipment - the egr cooler - that would often fail and then lead to other major problems like head gasket failure. I don't believe those egr coolers are in a bus.

I have a Ford Excursion with the 6.0 Powerstroke and have done extensive work on it. I think they're pretty good engines when the weak points have been taken care of but I wish there was more on here about the VT365 as I'm considering a bus with one right now. Would like to know from other's experience with them, do they still have head gasket issues etc...

 

[cadillackid]

I go back and forth on the VT-365. the VT vs the PS also is that the HP / TQ ratings of the VT are much conservative compared to that of the PS 6.0, there was a forum member last year though that got a VT hot ONCE and done.. they still have the Plastic oil filter standpipe which melts at an oil temp of 260.. the VT still suffers the same crappy oil cooler fate of the 6.0, then there are lots of aftermarket solutions like you have done for your 6.0 excursion.

the shop that painted my bus also works on trucks as well.. it just so happened while I was there for some touch up work that a VT-365 in a 4700 box truck. came in NUKED.. catastrophic mechanical.. the front of the block was broken.. he said that was the second he had done this year on similar trucks. .. of course i have no idea of the miles / hours / etc on those trucks..

i think for someone like you who has the knowledge and experience of the 6.0 that a VT-365 might be just fine.. although you'll likely find it under-powered compared to the 6.0 in your ford.. and upgrading the soecs on a navistar engine isnt as easy as a ford.. they use J1708 / J1939 computers so no cool programmers will work on them.
-Christopher

 

[Jp78]

I have a fleet of 300 vt365 buses which is the same as a 6.0 all international parts never had head problems like ford there really not bad once updates are done I am building a06 re with a vt365 and it moves fine

 

[Tyania]

I have a fleet of 300 vt365 buses which is the same as a 6.0 all international parts never had head problems like ford there really not bad once updates are done I am building a06 re with a vt365 and it moves fine

Can anyone detail what updates are recomended to better the vt365? There sure are a lot of buses with those engines out there for sale.
Does anyones negative opinions change at all in the case of a vt365 on a short 6 window body bus?
I am considering a low milage (106k miles with 6,300 hours) 6 window bus right now... Opinions?

 

[cadillackid]

absolutely positively never get a VT-365 hot. one of the biggest issues is the oil cooler and egr cooler.. if the oil cooler clogs due to poor coolant maintenance, you can run your oil tempoeratures up esp if you are running the bus on the highway or have it loaded heavy.. overheated oil can and will melt plastic parts in the engine and destroy it.

if I were buying one those are the 2 things id likely upgrade right off the bat.

BulletProof EGR Cooler, Square, Ford 6.0L, Lifetime Warranty

this is a nice upgrade kit for an external cooler / filter for the oil..

https://www.iprresearch.com/IPR-External-Oil-Cooler-Kit-for-Ford-6.0-Powerstroke.html

-Christopher

P.S. the references to ford powerstroke 6.0 - International made the Diesel engines for ford for those.. in the international trucks / busses they are referred to as VT-365, in the fords the yare referred to as powerstroke 6.0..

some differences exist. but many core parts are shared between the 2.

 

[Jp78]

I wouldn't go bullet proof we were using them and had problems with them leaking at the welds and they use international oil coolers

 

[cadillackid]

good to know on bulletproof!! I know there are a ton of comparable products out there now..

a nice air conditioned IC BE came up for sale here in ohio pretty cheap.. a friend of mine is looking at it... so he has interest in what parts to replace if he buys it..

-Christopher

 

[Jp78]

Can always delete ... im not the biggest fan but my buddy deletes them and hasn't had a problem

 

[Bon Voyage]

i didn't end up getting the VT365 but if I had I would've done the following from my experience with 6.0 Powerstrokes
1. Coolant filter $100-$200 to keep the oil cooler from clogging if it isn't already.
2. Egr delete. $$$$ but helps keep the engine cool since it's not cooling exhaust gasses. Should also save a little fuel.

If you do those two things you've already prevented a large likelihood of Common problems. And of course don't over heat it -as already stated.

3. If a head gasket problem happens get ARP head studs instead of factory head bolts. Assuming they'll fit the international version. This is also $$$$
After doing all this you'll have a "bulletproof" engine as they say.
It's costly but makes it a great engine in my opinion.

 

[Tyania]

i didn't end up getting the VT365 but if I had I would've done the following from my experience with 6.0 Powerstrokes
1. Coolant filter $100-$200 to keep the oil cooler from clogging if it isn't already.
2. Egr delete. $$$$ but helps keep the engine cool since it's not cooling exhaust gasses. Should also save a little fuel.

If you do those two things you've already prevented a large likelihood of Common problems. And of course don't over heat it -as already stated.

3. If a head gasket problem happens get ARP head studs instead of factory head bolts. Assuming they'll fit the international version. This is also $$$$
After doing all this you'll have a "bulletproof" engine as they say.
It's costly but makes it a great engine in my opinion.

Thanks.
Does anyone have a round about figure on all those dollar signs. If the vt365 comes down to my only option (i am on a time crunch), I would consider puting in a few dollar signs to have it road worthy before hitting the long trip. Just want to know what kind of expense on top of the bus I would be looking at.

 

[Bon Voyage]

If the head gaskets are failed I'd move along to another. Probably $4000 at least for head gasket job with ARP head studs but then again it may be more accessible than in a Ford Superduty.

Egr delete I'm guessing about $1200.

Might be worthwhile calling a few shops to see what they'll do. I could be way off. Again just going off my experience with my 2 powerstrokes. And I'm in Canada where labor usually costs more.

Somebody else might have a better idea

 

[cadillackid]

honestly the VT-365 doesnt have neasrly the head failures that the 6.0 does... the max RPMs are kept much lower and I believe the head bolts used arent are different than the ford.. as well as its HP and TQ rating are much lower.. if you look at the B10 and B50 ratings of the VT-365 they arent bad..

in a short bus lkike an IC BE or IC 200. in my opinion they will be OK.. I have come to realize that under lighter loads and very conservative HP and TQ ratings as the navistar, these engines can last a long time when maintained correctly..

the bus in question is the perfect size for one.. as long as it isnt expected to pull a big SUV or such..

the best way to tell if you are having oil cooler issues is to run a scan tool like a scanGauge where you can watch your oil temp in relation to your coolant temp..
most all of these VT365s are mated to 5 or 6 speed allison transmissions with lockup, so typically you have highway capabilities...
high oil temperatures are often avoided by running your ewngine at a nice mid-high teens RPM range and under less than 75% average load.. this also helps to keep your recirculated echaust gas temps lower too.. even on the stock EGR cooler..

-Christopher

 

[Tyania]

honestly the VT-365 doesnt have neasrly the head failures that the 6.0 does... the max RPMs are kept much lower and I believe the head bolts used arent are different than the ford.. as well as its HP and TQ rating are much lower.. if you look at the B10 and B50 ratings of the VT-365 they arent bad..

in a short bus lkike an IC BE or IC 200. in my opinion they will be OK.. I have come to realize that under lighter loads and very conservative HP and TQ ratings as the navistar, these engines can last a long time when maintained correctly..

the bus in question is the perfect size for one.. as long as it isnt expected to pull a big SUV or such..

the best way to tell if you are having oil cooler issues is to run a scan tool like a scanGauge where you can watch your oil temp in relation to your coolant temp..
most all of these VT365s are mated to 5 or 6 speed allison transmissions with lockup, so typically you have highway capabilities...
high oil temperatures are often avoided by running your ewngine at a nice mid-high teens RPM range and under less than 75% average load.. this also helps to keep your recirculated echaust gas temps lower too.. even on the stock EGR cooler..

-Christopher

Another bomb responce, Christopher... Very complete. I also read about the low torque and b10 and b50 ratings which is why I started thinking it might not be a disaster move to buy one if it has low miles.
Thanks again to you and everyone else.

 

[cowlitzcoach]

The biggest problems with most of the VT365 equipped buses are the same sort of problems they are having with the last of the MaxxForceDT engines and MaxxForce7 engines.

Due to the nature of how a school bus works most of the time the engines are not getting hot enough to make the EGR work properly. As a consequence there is a LOT of soot that gets into the engine that tends to clog up the EGR works.

As it has been mentioned before, changing the oil and getting it out onto the highway to get the operating temp up where it is supposed to be will tend to clean up a lot of the problems the operators have been having with them.

When a bus gets started at the bus garage and travels less than ten miles on route, to the school, and back to the bus garage it just can't get warmed up properly. It doesn't help that the engine idles for extended periods of time at the bus garage, at the schools, and at the multiple stops and traffic controls. The more idling it does the more the soot level increases.

Much like the old 9.0L from yesteryear, the VT-365/MaxxForce7 engine was very successful with some operators. But for most of the operators the feeling is the VT-365/MaxxForce7 is a candidate for boat anchor status.

 

[chev49]

the last two bus companies i have driven for dont want idling over 5 min, and shut off immediately at the school.. however is oregon on coast where is rarely is below freezing. at both of them, when u do your pre trip, you only run bus long enough to run up the air, and do the brake check...

 

[cowlitzcoach]

the last two bus companies i have driven for dont want idling over 5 min, and shut off immediately at the school.. however is oregon on coast where is rarely is below freezing. at both of them, when u do your pre trip, you only run bus long enough to run up the air, and do the brake check...

Back in the day it was not unknown to idle buses on fast idle for 15-minutes or longer in order to get some heat in the bus before you took off in the morning. With the advent of diesel engines that doesn't work very well no matter how long you sit around on fast idle. With a diesel you can create more heat by going around the block than idling for 30-minutes.

Also, in more and more urban areas idling for more than a few minutes is prohibited. Unless you are actually loading or unloading passengers you can't sit and have the engine running not matter how cold it is outside so you can run the heaters or how hot it is outside so you can run the A/C to keep things cooled off.