Why DIY and the demise of auto-repair

[Mountain Gnome]

On another thread, I was telling a guy how I think that you might as well
Do It Yourself
rather than taking it to a "professional".


Need some 1/2" tubing bent to specs for a tranny cooler install. Called the tubing bender guys and asked:


Me: what is the smallest diameter bend you can make in 1/2 tubing?


Him: well, usually 90° is the most, but we could probably do 180° if you really need it.


Me: no, not the degrees, the diameter or radius of the bend.


Him: hmmm..not sure...let me check...
[puts me on hold]
Him: well, I'm not sure, let me connect you with the guy in the back...


Guy: Hi, what are you asking?


Me: what is the radius of the smallest bend you can make in 1/2 steel tubing?


Guy: 90°


Me: no, not the degrees, the radius...


Guy: I'm not sure, no one has ever asked before...
[puts me on hold]
Guy: well, I can't figure that out; can I get your number and call you back?


That was at 11:00am. No return call.




Go into the Atlanta area (southeast regional) NAPA distribution center and ask for a transmission cooler: "They used to be on the shelf here in the showroom; do you have any here in stock?"


Old woman with grey hair poorly died clown-red looking through glasses on the end of her nose: "Transmission hose?"


Me: no, cooler.


Woman: transmission fluid?


Me: no, cooler.


Woman: transmission coolant?


Me: no, cooler. It's like a radiator.


Woman: {confused} for what vehicle???


Me: universal fit, like for a big truck or motorhome.



Woman: well, we need to know the vehicle to look it up. What is the make?


Me: BlueBird


[Woman spends a full minute trying to find it in the listing on her computer]
Woman: a what?


Me: a BlueBird bus. It's in the heavy vehicles section.


Woman: oh.....
[gets my vehicle info and looks up "transmission cooler"
Woman: we show none available for your vehicle.


Me: I just need a universal fit type cooler. They have them at other NAPA locations.


[Woman looks for help; 18-year-old kid steps up and plays with the computer.]


Kid: no, we don't have any available.


Me: you don't sell universal transmission coolers?


Kid: no.


A dozen employees standing around doing NOTHING; none look like they had ever even changed their own oil.


The AutoZone near me is staffed with folks who flunked out of tech school (nail and hair tech)


Went looking at all auto parts stores for 1/2 tubing. The kid at OReilly's asked:


Kid: "for what vehicle"


Me: just standard universal fit steel tubing I can use for a tranny cooler, you know, like brake tubing or similar...


Kid: I don't know, let me ask...
[asks another employee]
Kid: oh yea, that pipe-stuff....


And the list goes on and on and on about "professionals" at their work...
Gotta find that 1/2 tube bender tool and just DIMyself... flare the ends myself with the correct JIC -8AN fitting installed. Did a 3/8" tube bend once for my Dodge Van that came out near perfect (1mm off where it screws into the tranny). Do brake lines with flares all the time. But 1/2" is much stiffer, and more costly when the bend is not correct the first time....

 

[o1marc]

So how tight of a radius can you bend a 1/2" line? With the right tool I imagine around 1/2"

 

[Mountain Gnome]

So how tight of a radius can you bend a 1/2" line? With the right tool I imagine around 1/2"

 

[Mountain Gnome]

I called them back hours later and found out they have a 90° swivel female to male JIC-8 fitting to attach to the outlets of the cooler, so I'm guessing the minimum bend will not matter now. Less than 2" radius? I hope

 

[BlackJohn]

So how tight of a radius can you bend a 1/2" line? With the right tool I imagine around 1/2"

You forgot to ask if kinked or unkinked, makes a big difference,:wink1:


John

 

[o1marc]

You forgot to ask if kinked or unkinked, makes a big difference,:wink1:


John

Oh, kinked I get it to less than 1/4"

 

[Mountain Gnome]

To those silent readers who know not about tube bending:


With a hand-powered tube bender, the tube will not kink. Without one, good luck.


But the tube wall on the inner bend has a shorter length than the wall along the outer bend. They were the same length originally when strait.


If it doesn't kink, it stretches. As it stretches, it gets thinner. How thin is too thin? The smaller the radius, the thinner the outer wall gets.


I good tube-bending machine can add many very small kinks to the inner bend. spaced evenly and close to each other, and that limits the outer wall's need to stretch. Then the integrity of the tube is better. It may not rust through as quickly, or burst from extreme pressure, or crack from vibrational fatigue. In my case, I assume the tranny fluid pressure is near zero through the cooler circuit; only the spin-on filter should slow it down.

 

[HazMatt-SKO]

Backwoods Engineering technique to bending Cu tubing:

Block one end, fill tube with very fine sand or other incompressible media, tap down and top off, cap other end, see-saw tube over a hard round "anvil" of appropriate curvature until bend is complete. Empty, blow out, and rinse any residuals out.

I enjoyed reading the opening post. Kind of a cross between Joseph Heller & Kurt Vonegut.

 

[Mountain Gnome]

Backwoods Engineering technique to bending Cu tubing:

Block one end, fill tube with very fine sand or other incompressible media, tap down and top off, cap other end, see-saw tube over a hard round "anvil" of appropriate curvature until bend is complete. Empty, blow out, and rinse any residuals out.

I enjoyed reading the opening post. Kind of a cross between Joseph Heller & Kurt Vonegut.

Good to know the tube bending technique, but no sand in my tranny, thanks! I'll never get the tube's inner walls fully clean.


Thanks for the complement, but I don't read them, so I'm guessing they are good? Seems like Kurt is a familiar name. Years ago (at 18yrs old) I read a book on the brain, and became so fascinated with cognitive science, that since then I find no time for fiction, with all the other stuff I like to do. I could spend a lifetime as a library geek learning all I can and not be satisfied with learning enough; another lifetime walking through the woods with my entire life in a backpack, sleeping in a tent, eating, drinking water, and burning Shiva, living the simple life; another lifetime caving, rock climbing, hang gliding & paragliding, traveling the country in a bus, touring with the GD, and festival hopping; and another lifetime with a wife and kids. Trying to cram it all into one long one, but seems like I lost out on the last option... Barely time to read, these days.

 

[HazMatt-SKO]

That is for copper, unsure of it's efficacy with SS, at least with the larger diameters. Pulling a patch thru, maybe with some solvent, until it comes out clean should alleviate the contamination concern.
As my pipe bending was for potable water, I opted out from the unsavory flavory it'd give my agua. Figure I eat more dirt on a good day mountain biking.
Even more, if I face plant...

Good to know the tube bending technique, but no sand in my tranny, thanks! I'll never get the tube's inner walls fully clean.


Thanks for the complement, but I don't read them, so I'm guessing they are good? Seems like Kurt is a familiar name. Years ago (at 18yrs old) I read a book on the brain, and became so fascinated with cognitive science, that since then I find no time for fiction, with all the other stuff I like to do. I could spend a lifetime as a library geek learning all I can and not be satisfied with learning enough; another lifetime walking through the woods with my entire life in a backpack, sleeping in a tent, eating, drinking water, and burning Shiva, living the simple life; another lifetime caving, rock climbing, hang gliding & paragliding, traveling the country in a bus, touring with the GD, and festival hopping; and another lifetime with a wife and kids. Trying to cram it all into one long one, but seems like I lost out on the last option... Barely time to read, these days.

Fairly high praise: Vonnegut was a brilliant, twisted author with some massively outta the box thinking.
From the title of Heller's seminal novel on WW2, the term, "Catch-22," became part of the common lexicon.

 

[cadillackid]

transmission cooler fittings....


grainger is a good source for those trans line fittings.. most of them are made by Eaton Parker. and you can look up the manfuacturer part numbers of them...



the allison transmissions usr an ORB or O ring boss type fitting.. the lines themselves use a JIC.. (hydraulic 37 degree fitting)... the 545 I think uses a #8 ORB... the allison 1000/2000/3000 all use a #12 ORB fitting..



there are 90s, 60s, 45s... swivels, non swivels.. and grainger seems to stock a lot of them.. you can buy adapters to adapt various line sizes up and down as well..



I make my transmission lines out of braided steel line and fit them with AN style hydraulic flare fittings..



auto parts stores... - some of the advance stores in esp industrial areas of towns are carrying Medium duty parts.. my local advance is the source where I buy filters, belts.. and the like for my busses..



there are special NAPA stores in industrial or warehouse park areas that carry many truc parts... air lines, governors, brake chambers, steering parts, air springs, etc...



they are sometimes easy to spot on the store finder as they often have more business-day type hours than the consumer stores..



dont rule out Jegs and summit racing for universal fit type parts... both have pretty good help on the telephone... these guys are not necessarily used to people calling up with school bus needs, however they arew very used to people calling up doing out-of-the-norm work... and they usually wont ask if it has A/C and power steering as the first questions...



as for tubing.. I try and keep my radius as big as I can... for one, as mentioned with a home hand bender im at the mercy of the quality of the tube for how much I stretch the wall... and another. a substance flowing wants to take the straighter approach than it does the tighter approach... esp when dealing with exhaust..

-Christopher

 

[Mountain Gnome]

transmission cooler fittings....

auto parts stores... - some of the advance stores in esp industrial areas of towns are carrying Medium duty parts.. my local advance is the source where I buy filters, belts.. and the like for my busses..



there are special NAPA stores in industrial or warehouse park areas that carry many truc parts... air lines, governors, brake chambers, steering parts, air springs, etc...



they are sometimes easy to spot on the store finder as they often have more business-day type hours than the consumer stores..



dont rule out Jegs and summit racing for universal fit type parts... both have pretty good help on the telephone... these guys are not necessarily used to people calling up with school bus needs, however they arew very used to people calling up doing out-of-the-norm work... and they usually wont ask if it has A/C and power steering as the first questions...



as for tubing.. I try and keep my radius as big as I can... for one, as mentioned with a home hand bender im at the mercy of the quality of the tube for how much I stretch the wall... and another. a substance flowing wants to take the straighter approach than it does the tighter approach... esp when dealing with exhaust..

-Christopher

Advance near me used to be the cheapo-creapo place with the clueless floor-help. Then they were they ones with the better parts, and hard to find parts. Now I like them all around. Good people at that store.


NAPA in Ashland and Eugene OR were staffed with knowledgeable folks.
Used to be 20 years ago the NAPA distribution center was where you went to at least identify what you needed, even if not in stock or not in the product line. A part number to move on from there. All old-school guys and gals who have been in the business for many years, most previously as techs who actually fix vehicles. They had a machine shop that could handle most anything, and do a good job. All gone. Not enough pay. Not enough qualified job applicants. More complex vehicles that the average Joe doesn't work on himself. The NAPA closest to me has some good guys there, who know their stuff. In another 20 years at this rate, how many auto parts stores will be left? Who will run the counter in them?

 

[Mountain Gnome]

Oh yea, got a cooler from Summit.


Like my tubing bent as wide as possible, but have some tight turns.


see this thread:
http://www.skoolie.net/forums/f33/fe-flatnose-or-dognose-easier-to-repair-26820-2.html

 

[Sleddgracer]

I had a tube bending accessory at one time - no idea where it is now - it was a spring coiled to the size of the tube you were bending - mine was sized for 1/2" copper - it held the side walls in place so there was little deforming - the limitation of how tight you could make the bend was how far could you bend the tube and still get the spring off the tube - lol - it was a handy tool though

 

[alpine44]

Good to know the tube bending technique, but no sand in my tranny, thanks! I'll never get the tube's inner walls fully clean.


...

Use salt or sugar and after bending dissolve with water.

 

[HazMatt-SKO]

Good idea!

Use salt or sugar and after bending dissolve with water.

So long's the tube is packed tightly enough, pulverizing the particles oughtn't matter much.

 

[Mountain Gnome]

.Fairly high praise: Vonnegut was a brilliant, twisted author with some massively outta the box thinking.
From the title of Heller's seminal novel on WW2, the term, "Catch-22," became part of the common lexicon.

Took me a minute to figure out how to respond to this.


Twisted as in the thin 4-foot fibers with a tensile strength of 1-2lbs that make up a 100-foot rope spanning a 200-foot deep abyss with an impassable river at the bottom, making a foot bridge that holds several people at once?
Thanks.
Twisted as in the tubular "arteries" in a pine-tree that express themselves visually to us in the bark patterns, the growth of the limbs, and is extended in a fractal pattern out the limbs to the branches to the twigs, which gives the tree its strength while remaining flexible?
Thanks.
Twisted as in this vine that is choking off this tree?
Hmmm. I'm on the fence about that, but I admit I now want to incorporate the tree trunk into my bus somewheres inside...
Twisted as in the sick folks who shoot up schools, places of worship, and recreational venues? Or the ones who start wars based on lies?
I'm insulted.


Brilliant I try to be, but it is hard in the darkness now-a-days when it sucks up all your light.


"I was born ready" - and out of the box.


"catch-22" seems to dominate my life. And what's that rule #1? If it can go wrong, it will go wrong in the worst way....

 

[MarkyDee]

Took me a minute to figure out how to respond to this.


Twisted as in the thin 4-foot fibers with a tensile strength of 1-2lbs that make up a 100-foot rope spanning a 200-foot deep abyss with an impassable river at the bottom, making a foot bridge that holds several people at once?
Thanks.
Twisted as in the tubular "arteries" in a pine-tree that express themselves visually to us in the bark patterns, the growth of the limbs, and is extended in a fractal pattern out the limbs to the branches to the twigs, which gives the tree its strength while remaining flexible?
Thanks.
Twisted as in this vine that is choking off this tree?
Hmmm. I'm on the fence about that, but I admit I now want to incorporate the tree trunk into my bus somewheres inside...
Twisted as in the sick folks who shoot up schools, places of worship, and recreational venues? Or the ones who start wars based on lies?
I'm insulted.


Brilliant I try to be, but it is hard in the darkness now-a-days when it sucks up all your light.


"I was born ready" - and out of the box.


"catch-22" seems to dominate my life. And what's that rule #1? If it can go wrong, it will go wrong in the worst way....

Oooo, and the pic is sideways, too.

 

[HazMatt-SKO]

That's either because it's a vine,

Oooo, and the pic is sideways, too.

Or, if not seen in the horizontal format, he was worried that vertical might trunkate it...

 

[HazMatt-SKO]

You may have read more into it than was intended. You surely wrote more into it, however cogently.
In the estimable Mr. V's case, I referred to a quirky, atypical sense of humor, with a fine command of painting images with his words. The boy wasn't right.
And that is so not wrong!