witec II MD3060 6th gear unlock help

[nikitis]

the VIN and CIN are 2 different things..



TCM's have a model number (like A41,A51,A59, etc) and also have a Part number.. thats for the HARDWARE itself...


the program within the TCM is the firmware and also the calibration.. the CIN is the calibration ID Number... this is where the shift tables, max RPM, throttle type, and customer modifiable values are stored like gear ratios and whether certainputs are turned on or not..


the label on the outside of a TCM is the base calibration parameters, 6 speed capable TCMs are supposed to be stamped with a primary mode of 1-6S1, 5 speed units will be stamped 1-5S1 typically.. the throttle type is generally J1939 or "auto"..



the governed RPM is important as that is the RPM the unit maxxes out at.. so if your engine only revs to 2300 max RPM foot to the floor yet you install a TCM with a 2700 RPM CIN, it will never shift to the next gear till you let off the gas pedal. likewise if you habve an engine that maxxes at 2700 RPM and you install a 2200 RPM TCM it will always shift much earlier than you want it to..



there are CIN numbers all over the interwebs and many of them show the RPM, gear pattern and throttle type.. but there are other vocations which you may not want.. ie if it requires an inhibit input for say a bucket truck where the transd expects a circuot to close from the bucket.. program that into a TCM where the wires arent even connected and it may result in you never getting out of neutral..


allison dealers can look up CIN numbers and read a report.. some of the 3rd party guys have a whole library of calibrations and the CIN printouts so when you mail them your TCM they know what you are trying to do therefore know which CIN to burn to your TCM.. I have a set of the allison programming books and there are literally 100s of options that can be set in the calibrations... most often this never needs touched as allison works directly with the manufacturers of these busses and trucks.. and provides the calibrations for their vocations.. often a completely different calibration for every gear ratio, every tire size, etc..


its important to pay attention to what you are buying..

My bus doesn't want to shift out of first sometimes, I max out RPM's, but I don't know if this is due to the engine and running in Limp Mode due to my VPM being broken or not. I just finished my King pin job and will begin working on the VPM here soon. Once fixed I'll see if the shifting fixes itself, if not I may need a TCM adjustment. All the other gears shift out fine when they are supposed to but not first to second.

 

[cadillackid]

My bus doesn't want to shift out of first sometimes, I max out RPM's, but I don't know if this is due to the engine and running in Limp Mode due to my VPM being broken or not. I just finished my King pin job and will begin working on the VPM here soon. Once fixed I'll see if the shifting fixes itself, if not I may need a TCM adjustment. All the other gears shift out fine when they are supposed to but not first to second.

is yours an MD3060?

 

[PorchDog]

OK. Based on the CIN# that EWO1 sent-- I would say the VIN that Sportyrick sent was actually the CIN#. (The numbers are similar in structure/appearance...) Sportyrick's numbers came off a WTEC 2 controller with 6th unlocked-- with the ratchet handle shifter just like my bus, so I suspect that is the correct CIN# for the program I need installed into my TCM.

This is all scary stuff-- because I have a perfectly functioning bus at this point, and I have to jeopardize that to get 6th unlocked...

But I really think this info is what I need to proceed when I get my courage up.

 

[nikitis]

is yours an MD3060?

No, 545, but I have those symptoms.

 

[cadillackid]

No, 545, but I have those symptoms.

545 is a mechanical transmission and has no TCM.. on a T444E it has an electric modulator that either puts the transmission into high shift point or low shift point based on the engine ECM, throttle position..


a 545 that doesnt shift can be a lot of things.. usually line pressure related... dirty filters, internal valve body issues, etc..



when the 545 went out in my red bus, the first symptoms were hesitant shifting.. esp hesitant to downshift.. then at times it had no idea what gear it wanted to be in ..thats when I swapped it out

 

[nikitis]

Ok, yeah my ECM probably has no idea what to do because the VPM isn't talking to it, so it doesn't even know it's in a bus, so it may just be that is my hope anyway.


It seems to downshift no problem, only going from first to second. I kind of have to do this thing where I rev it, let off, then rev it again and then it will shift.



It is a T444E Engine. I'll just see what happens once I get the VPM fixed, and see if there's any change. Thanks for the info.

 

[sportyrick]

I have no CIN on my controller so lets just say the SN is it for now, keep us aboard on how this goes. sportyrick

 

[Bbqlife]

Any updates on unlocking 6th gear? I’m stuck between a rock and a hard spot trying to get the WTEC 2 controller unlocked.

 

[PorchDog]

If you call ECM Kings and have them reference invoice #22018 dated 8/20/2019 and see if it jogs their memory.

This invoice is where Sporty Rick had his WTECII controller reprogrammed for 6th gear.

I ended up changing my rear axle ratio from 6.14 to 5.38-- and I am happy with that. Just living with one overdrive-- 0.75.

0.75 X 5.38 yields an effective rear axle ratio of 4.035.

With 11R22.5 tires at 2000 RPM gets you 61.5 MPH.

 

[Omnibot2000]

If you call ECM Kings and have them reference invoice #22018 dated 8/20/2019 and see if it jogs their memory.

This invoice is where Sporty Rick had his WTECII controller reprogrammed for 6th gear.

I ended up changing my rear axle ratio from 6.14 to 5.38-- and I am happy with that. Just living with one overdrive-- 0.75.

0.75 X 5.38 yields an effective rear axle ratio of 4.035.

With 11R22.5 tires at 2000 RPM gets you 61.5 MPH.

5.38 would be a nice ratio with a 5 speed. Wish I could have done it to mine Was just insane to ship one out of the USA. Canada had nothing for an N190. Found one out of N175 but the spline count was different.

 

[Stovebolt-SKO]

So ... just asking ... (for a friend ...)


*if* you unlock 6th gear ...


*If* you get taller gears, etc to lower rpm's for same speed ...


Assuming DT466E with the MD3060 ...




Aren't you actually making the engine work *harder*??? Been my experience that most diesels, especially 2-cycle Detroits and DT466's (both engines I've had a lot of road time with ), the more you make it scream, the easier it's working thus/ergo lower fuel consumption.


I'm not an automotive engineer, just an "advanced middle aged" retired truck driver, so maybe one of the whiz kids here can educate me on this if I am not understanding my Thermodynamics (Diesel Cycle) correctly.





John

 

[Albatross]

Well, 2-cycles generally just want to scream anyway, the Detroit's especially.



But Detroit's aren't made to mate with a 3060 in the first place. I mean, with enough time, money, and work... Anything could be made to happen, but it's not something you're generally going to see.


But for a 4-cycle like the 466's, it isn't a bad thing, and they can usually handle the torque load it requires. The general idea is that when you want to take longer trips across flat highways, and everyone else is screaming past you, it's a bit better, a bit safer, and a bit more economical to lower the revs on those engines.

 

[Stovebolt-SKO]

Not buying it yet. As for 4-cycle diesels, Older Cats and Cummins do pretty well in lower RPM bands (I'm not experienced in newer diesels with all the emissions crap), but the 466's I've driven seemed happy up against the governor. The last two trucks I drove with 466's had worn out clutch brakes so they had to be double clutched.



But this bus of mine now is the first Allison I've owned/driven so I'm trying to learn. I'm still reaching for a shifter



Our mechanic at work attempted to unlock my 6th gear but discovered my 3060 is only a 5-speed. He said a 6th gear would not do me any good as far as improving fuel efficiency. The 6 speeds are good, he said, for getting fire trucks up to speed faster, but other than that ... He told me to be happy with what I had.


So I am!


As for being a rolling road block ... Having driven oversized loads (heavy equipment on detachable gooseneck trailers in the 50-60 ton range), I long ago got used to impatient idiots doing stupid things. If my bus is happy at 60 -65 in a 70 mph zone ... fine.

 

[Omnibot2000]

Not buying it yet. As for 4-cycle diesels, Older Cats and Cummins do pretty well in lower RPM bands (I'm not experienced in newer diesels with all the emissions crap), but the 466's I've driven seemed happy up against the governor. The last two trucks I drove with 466's had worn out clutch brakes so they had to be double clutched.



But this bus of mine now is the first Allison I've owned/driven so I'm trying to learn. I'm still reaching for a shifter



Our mechanic at work attempted to unlock my 6th gear but discovered my 3060 is only a 5-speed. He said a 6th gear would not do me any good as far as improving fuel efficiency. The 6 speeds are good, he said, for getting fire trucks up to speed faster, but other than that ... He told me to be happy with what I had.


So I am!

The 6 speed that the 3060 guys are opening is the 2nd OD. It's has nothing for getting a fire truck upto speed faster. The mechanic is full of sh.it.

Lugging an engine is bad. You know that.

Over speeding an engine is better then lugging....not past governor naturally.

Here is the sweet spot.....in my opinion. You have peak torque and peak HP. You stay is that envelope and your good for the most part.

Now if you move out of that range it burns excess fuel and is unsafe. You can overspeed an engine to do 60mph outside the sweet spot and it will burn more fuel, run hotter(depends), lack power at the higher end of the rpm range and then it comes down to sound. I don't want to hear a screaming engine hours on end.

People have reported in the real world not gaining anything by opening the 2nd gear and only lowered their rpm. You need "X" power to cruise down the highway 60mph. If the engine is making it at 2200 rpm vs 2000rpm in its efficiency zone you have nothing to gain really.

Now if you wanna run at the same speed but the engine is running 2600 rpm, the peak HP and torque has dropped off, you will now burn more fuel to run that speed.

There are alot of variables. It depends on what the engines capabilities are, weight, speed....so on and so on.

 

[Albatross]

As for being a rolling road block ... Having driven oversized loads (heavy equipment on detachable gooseneck trailers in the 50-60 ton range), I long ago got used to impatient idiots doing stupid things. If my bus is happy at 60 -65 in a 70 mph zone ... fine.

60-65 mph in a 70 mph zone is reasonable; but a lot of the places I've lived require you to get on interstates to get anywhere, and the general flow on those is moving at 85 mph.

 

[sportyrick]

I am very happy with my setup, DT466 with 3060 and 4.33 rear gets me 1550 rpm at 70 mph, torque on mechanical DT466 comes on at about 1300 RPM and peak HP at 2100 so motoring down highway at 1550 works well, come to a hill press down on throttle a little it downshifts to 5th and puts a few hundred more rpm on the engine and up the hill I go, I might drop to 65mph climbing that hill. 10 mpg usually but got 16 mpg in the flats of Indiana, my bus weight is 25,000.

 

[cadillackid]

I am very happy with my setup, DT466 with 3060 and 4.33 rear gets me 1550 rpm at 70 mph, torque on mechanical DT466 comes on at about 1300 RPM and peak HP at 2100 so motoring down highway at 1550 works well, come to a hill press down on throttle a little it downshifts to 5th and puts a few hundred more rpm on the engine and up the hill I go, I might drop to 65mph climbing that hill. 10 mpg usually but got 16 mpg in the flats of Indiana, my bus weight is 25,000.

for a DT thats about perfect... that was my RPM profile in my T444E (shorter stroke V8) and it didnt work for me.. I was too low.. I regeared shorter and now im in the similar situation.. 6th for nrmal cruising and when I need a little juice get down to 5.. but for an I6 long stroke motor you cant go wrong with that setup you have.



people need to realize RPM isnt a set in stone thing that fits all.. ever ydifferent engine has a profile it likes to run in...